1
00:00:06,550 --> 00:00:02,790
on this episode of skeptico an

2
00:00:12,709 --> 00:00:09,910
with some very special guests

3
00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:12,719
welcome to skeptical where we explore

4
00:00:24,630 --> 00:00:21,109
there's al borealis from forum borealis

5
00:00:27,750 --> 00:00:24,640
who sprung this surprise party on me

6
00:00:29,830 --> 00:00:27,760
i feel that alex's interviews went in

7
00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:29,840
greater depth than almost any others in

8
00:00:34,229 --> 00:00:31,039
this area

9
00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:34,239
there's the incredible rupert sheldrick

10
00:00:38,869 --> 00:00:35,920
who plays an important part in the

11
00:00:42,069 --> 00:00:38,879
origin story of skeptico you'll hear

12
00:00:43,990 --> 00:00:42,079
more from him in just a minute

13
00:00:46,069 --> 00:00:44,000
and you'll also hear from some other

14
00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:46,079
friends i've met along the way

15
00:00:49,510 --> 00:00:48,320
here's greg carl wood from higher side

16
00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:49,520
chats

17
00:00:53,510 --> 00:00:51,440
and if a person is not going to factor

18
00:00:55,430 --> 00:00:53,520
consciousness into their scientific work

19
00:00:57,110 --> 00:00:55,440
or their model of reality then of what

20
00:01:00,790 --> 00:00:57,120
value is it really

21
00:01:03,189 --> 00:01:00,800
just as any true analysis of power or

22
00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:03,199
historic events or business has to

23
00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:05,920
factor in conspiracy or it's probably

24
00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:07,680
grossly inaccurate

25
00:01:12,469 --> 00:01:10,000
well you hold people to these points

26
00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:12,479
with extreme consistency and it's a

27
00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:13,760
beautiful thing

28
00:01:18,070 --> 00:01:16,000
that's a good one and here's gordon

29
00:01:20,870 --> 00:01:18,080
white from roon soup

30
00:01:22,149 --> 00:01:20,880
i don't remember when or how i found

31
00:01:24,550 --> 00:01:22,159
skeptico

32
00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:24,560
but it was about a decade ago alex's

33
00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:26,720
voice and his quest

34
00:01:31,429 --> 00:01:28,400
uh and his

35
00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:31,439
continuous seeking were

36
00:01:35,990 --> 00:01:34,560
just eye-opening and and wonderful

37
00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:36,000
and here's darren and graham from

38
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:39,200
gramerica hey alex coming at you from

39
00:01:41,830 --> 00:01:40,320
america

40
00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:41,840
darren and graham just wanted to wish

41
00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:45,200
you a happy 15th anniversary

42
00:01:48,870 --> 00:01:47,280
yeah thanks alex i mean he's been so

43
00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:48,880
helpful for us hey darren i mean he's

44
00:01:52,550 --> 00:01:50,720
been great he was one of those guys that

45
00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:52,560
gave us a chance and supported us along

46
00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:53,680
the way

47
00:01:58,630 --> 00:01:55,920
and then just when you think you're

48
00:02:00,149 --> 00:01:58,640
listening to a good old four hour yes

49
00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:00,159
it's four hours

50
00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:02,000
anniversary show

51
00:02:07,590 --> 00:02:05,520
a fight breaks out in the bathroom

52
00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:07,600
i can't let go of this miguel i can't

53
00:02:10,469 --> 00:02:09,200
let go of mitch horowitz who's been on

54
00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:10,479
your show

55
00:02:14,390 --> 00:02:12,640
yeah i have faith in mitch he's a he's a

56
00:02:16,070 --> 00:02:14,400
he's a good guy

57
00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:16,080
i'm going to have more to say about that

58
00:02:20,869 --> 00:02:18,080
clip in a minute as well but i first

59
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:20,879
want to say how thankful i am to al

60
00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:23,200
borealis from forum borealis for putting

61
00:02:27,110 --> 00:02:25,280
this together i never would have done

62
00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:27,120
something like this

63
00:02:32,790 --> 00:02:30,239
and i don't know how many people will be

64
00:02:35,190 --> 00:02:32,800
interested in listening to four hours of

65
00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:35,200
it but it was a really really special

66
00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:37,920
treat and a special honor to go back and

67
00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:41,040
walk through this skeptico project that

68
00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:42,239
i've been on

69
00:02:45,670 --> 00:02:43,920
so before we get to the show that i was

70
00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:45,680
put together i wanted to just make a

71
00:02:50,630 --> 00:02:47,840
couple of points about the rupert

72
00:02:53,589 --> 00:02:50,640
sheldrick clip and the miguel connor

73
00:02:55,350 --> 00:02:53,599
clip because in true anniversary fashion

74
00:02:57,670 --> 00:02:55,360
if you're going to have two clips that

75
00:02:59,350 --> 00:02:57,680
provided kind of bookends to what this

76
00:03:01,110 --> 00:02:59,360
show is all about

77
00:03:03,670 --> 00:03:01,120
those would be it

78
00:03:04,390 --> 00:03:03,680
i mean in rupert's clip he talks a lot

79
00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:04,400
about

80
00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:06,400
the whole thing we did way back in the

81
00:03:11,990 --> 00:03:09,280
day with richard wiseman where we had

82
00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:12,000
this intense scientific debate with

83
00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:14,000
wiseman and these other skeptics that

84
00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:16,800
just exposed these people here's how

85
00:03:20,309 --> 00:03:18,640
rupert puts it

86
00:03:23,430 --> 00:03:20,319
i mean it was an extremely misleading

87
00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:23,440
operation but alex really went into this

88
00:03:27,110 --> 00:03:25,200
you know he interviewed richard wiseman

89
00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:27,120
he interviewed me he read the various

90
00:03:29,990 --> 00:03:28,080
papers

91
00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:30,000
and then in one of the programs he had

92
00:03:34,309 --> 00:03:32,640
us on together in a kind of debate and

93
00:03:35,990 --> 00:03:34,319
you know no one else had done that i

94
00:03:38,869 --> 00:03:36,000
mean for example michael sherman's

95
00:03:41,589 --> 00:03:38,879
skeptic column in scientific american or

96
00:03:42,789 --> 00:03:41,599
the skeptical inquirer or skeptical

97
00:03:45,190 --> 00:03:42,799
claims in

98
00:03:47,830 --> 00:03:45,200
newspapers and the media

99
00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:47,840
you only hear their side and

100
00:03:52,470 --> 00:03:50,400
at one stage you remember the late james

101
00:03:54,550 --> 00:03:52,480
randy was always going around saying he

102
00:03:56,869 --> 00:03:54,560
got this million dollar prize for anyone

103
00:03:58,390 --> 00:03:56,879
who could show psychic phenomena

104
00:04:00,630 --> 00:03:58,400
and he used this

105
00:04:01,750 --> 00:04:00,640
as a media stunt

106
00:04:03,509 --> 00:04:01,760
and the

107
00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:03,519
the rank and file of the skeptic

108
00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:06,000
movement would reiterate his claims if

109
00:04:09,429 --> 00:04:07,599
it's so good why don't why don't you

110
00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:09,439
claim the million dollars

111
00:04:13,270 --> 00:04:10,720
so um

112
00:04:15,910 --> 00:04:13,280
alex did actually try and claim the

113
00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:15,920
million dollars he found a dog that knew

114
00:04:20,710 --> 00:04:17,919
it only was coming home in

115
00:04:23,909 --> 00:04:20,720
in in the united states he

116
00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:23,919
did some filming he did some experiments

117
00:04:28,150 --> 00:04:25,680
and then he got in touch with james

118
00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:28,160
randy saying he'd like to enter the

119
00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:30,160
contest he got this dog that knew when

120
00:04:34,790 --> 00:04:32,320
his owner was coming home

121
00:04:35,909 --> 00:04:34,800
and this was based on my own work on the

122
00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:35,919
subject

123
00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:39,360
and randy who'd lied about

124
00:04:43,189 --> 00:04:40,960
doing experiments of his own which he

125
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:43,199
never did and lied about analyzing my

126
00:04:46,310 --> 00:04:45,040
data which he never saw

127
00:04:48,469 --> 00:04:46,320
in detail

128
00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:48,479
it was obviously

129
00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:51,520
rather reluctant to get involved

130
00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:54,400
so that's really what skeptica was all

131
00:04:58,230 --> 00:04:56,560
about that's the origin of skeptico and

132
00:05:01,350 --> 00:04:58,240
i'm certainly very proud of that and

133
00:05:03,909 --> 00:05:01,360
proud of all the fantastic frontier

134
00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:03,919
scientists that i was able to connect

135
00:05:08,390 --> 00:05:06,240
with and bring to people who needed to

136
00:05:10,390 --> 00:05:08,400
hear that information but this

137
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:10,400
anniversary show also provides a look at

138
00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:12,479
where skeptico is now and where it's

139
00:05:17,430 --> 00:05:14,880
headed because about three and a half

140
00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:17,440
hours into this miguel connor from an

141
00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:20,720
bike gnostic radio who graciously

142
00:05:25,670 --> 00:05:23,280
joins us to congratulate and do the

143
00:05:29,189 --> 00:05:25,680
anniversary show thing

144
00:05:32,310 --> 00:05:29,199
gets dragged into the discussion about

145
00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:32,320
what is really driving me right now and

146
00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:36,720
that is how do we seek and understand

147
00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:39,600
truth on both a personal level

148
00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:43,039
and in the public domain

149
00:05:46,790 --> 00:05:45,120
i can't let go of this mcgill i can't

150
00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:46,800
let go of mitch horowitz who's been on

151
00:05:51,350 --> 00:05:48,880
your show who when i asked metrowitz if

152
00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:51,360
he's a satanist he said yeah and then i

153
00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:53,520
said here in writing you've said one of

154
00:05:58,070 --> 00:05:56,080
your inspirations is michael aquino and

155
00:06:00,550 --> 00:05:58,080
he says yeah and i said yeah but michael

156
00:06:01,990 --> 00:06:00,560
aquino has been outed as a pedophile at

157
00:06:04,469 --> 00:06:02,000
the presidio

158
00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:04,479
yeah i have faith in mitch he's a he's a

159
00:06:08,710 --> 00:06:06,800
good guy and he's a good friend so i'm

160
00:06:10,710 --> 00:06:08,720
sure mitch will come around and of

161
00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:10,720
course he talks a lot about many of his

162
00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:13,680
heroes that that he's had so

163
00:06:19,270 --> 00:06:15,680
i think uh we'll just see where this

164
00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:19,280
goes but uh yeah it's not going anywhere

165
00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:21,680
all this information has been out for

166
00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:24,960
years and the guy is a satanist so you

167
00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:27,280
know whatever that means to be publicly

168
00:06:32,309 --> 00:06:30,400
a satanist and to publicly defend aquino

169
00:06:34,070 --> 00:06:32,319
again this is where we we differ a

170
00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:34,080
little bit it's awesome i still love you

171
00:06:38,950 --> 00:06:36,080
i still love all your work but i think

172
00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:38,960
the litmus test thing as uncomfortable

173
00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:41,280
as people are with that idea yeah i

174
00:06:45,430 --> 00:06:43,360
think there are litmus tests out there

175
00:06:47,990 --> 00:06:45,440
if if you don't understand that 911 was

176
00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:48,000
an inside job i mean that's a litmus

177
00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:51,280
test your world view is somewhat

178
00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:53,440
limited or you're trying to deceive in

179
00:06:56,790 --> 00:06:55,120
the case of mitch horwitz he knows

180
00:06:58,550 --> 00:06:56,800
better about aquino he just wants to

181
00:07:00,950 --> 00:06:58,560
mislead people that

182
00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:00,960
that this well-known satanist mike

183
00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:03,599
laquino was not who he said he was and

184
00:07:07,510 --> 00:07:05,840
that's the only it's not the same part

185
00:07:09,909 --> 00:07:07,520
that gets you right i think it's the

186
00:07:12,629 --> 00:07:09,919
pedophilia part yeah that's it that's no

187
00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:12,639
it's it's the satanism part because the

188
00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:15,440
do what thou wilt as you correctly

189
00:07:21,510 --> 00:07:17,759
pointed out i think that is the

190
00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:21,520
abomination on spirit on divinity on the

191
00:07:26,710 --> 00:07:24,400
light that that is really what matters

192
00:07:29,749 --> 00:07:26,720
whatever satanism is again and it can

193
00:07:30,870 --> 00:07:29,759
only be defined by a totally corrupt

194
00:07:33,029 --> 00:07:30,880
christian

195
00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:33,039
understanding of it but the only way to

196
00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:35,280
understand it is to understand it as

197
00:07:40,629 --> 00:07:36,639
deception

198
00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:40,639
as darkness as whatever those other you

199
00:07:43,589 --> 00:07:42,160
know we all know the tools in the

200
00:07:46,070 --> 00:07:43,599
playbook you know do what thou wilt all

201
00:07:49,029 --> 00:07:46,080
those things but it's darkness it's to

202
00:07:50,629 --> 00:07:49,039
bring you away from the light

203
00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:50,639
so going forward you can definitely

204
00:07:54,469 --> 00:07:52,720
count on the truth thing

205
00:07:56,710 --> 00:07:54,479
which leads into the evil thing and

206
00:07:58,950 --> 00:07:56,720
leads into the conspiracy thing as well

207
00:08:01,350 --> 00:07:58,960
as the science thing

208
00:08:03,909 --> 00:08:01,360
you can count on all that being front

209
00:08:05,189 --> 00:08:03,919
and center in terms of what the show is

210
00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:05,199
all about

211
00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:08,160
and as i was mulling all that over

212
00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:10,960
it reminded me of a line from an old mac

213
00:08:15,350 --> 00:08:13,680
miller song i was looking for what was

214
00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:15,360
looking for me

215
00:08:21,830 --> 00:08:17,840
i think mac was looking for the wrong

216
00:08:24,070 --> 00:08:21,840
things but the line works equally well

217
00:08:26,070 --> 00:08:24,080
if you're looking for the right things

218
00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:26,080
if you're looking for truth if you're

219
00:08:31,749 --> 00:08:28,000
looking for the light

220
00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:31,759
the light and the truth will find you

221
00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:34,560
and with that and with a final big big

222
00:08:36,389 --> 00:08:35,599
thanks

223
00:08:43,430 --> 00:08:36,399
to

224
00:08:44,470 --> 00:08:43,440
amazing guests i've had on this show

225
00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:44,480
that have

226
00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:45,360
just

227
00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:47,760
added so much to me personally to my

228
00:08:52,949 --> 00:08:50,000
personal growth in a way that i just

229
00:08:55,509 --> 00:08:52,959
always imagined that this show would do

230
00:08:58,150 --> 00:08:55,519
i just have to give a big big

231
00:09:01,829 --> 00:08:58,160
hug of gratitude

232
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:01,839
all right al 15 year anniversary show

233
00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:04,370
coming up

234
00:09:14,230 --> 00:09:11,360
[Music]

235
00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:14,240
welcome to skeptical where we explore

236
00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:16,480
controversial science and spirituality

237
00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:18,560
with leading researchers thinkers and

238
00:09:23,990 --> 00:09:21,440
their critics i'm your host al borealis

239
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:24,000
standing in for alex today as he's

240
00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:26,160
otherwise preoccupied with an interview

241
00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:29,680
as we speak and apropos on this episode

242
00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:32,080
we welcome a first-time guest

243
00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:34,640
namely the yogi godfather of indie

244
00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:37,360
podcasts mr skeptical himself alex

245
00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:40,640
sakirus but before we kick off the show

246
00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:42,240
listen to this

247
00:09:46,150 --> 00:09:44,160
i don't have to tell you things are bad

248
00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:46,160
everybody knows things are bad it's a

249
00:09:49,910 --> 00:09:47,760
depression

250
00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:49,920
everybody's out of work or scared of

251
00:09:54,389 --> 00:09:52,000
losing their job

252
00:09:56,389 --> 00:09:54,399
the dollar buys a nickel's worth banks

253
00:09:57,910 --> 00:09:56,399
are going bust shopkeepers keep a gun

254
00:09:59,269 --> 00:09:57,920
under the counter there's nobody

255
00:10:01,509 --> 00:09:59,279
anywhere seems to know what to do and

256
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:01,519
there's no end to it

257
00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:04,160
we know the air is unfit to breathe and

258
00:10:08,949 --> 00:10:06,880
our food is unfit to eat we sit watching

259
00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:08,959
our tvs while some local newscaster

260
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:10,480
tells us that's the way it's supposed to

261
00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:13,519
be we know things are bad worse than bad

262
00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:15,120
they're crazy it's like everything

263
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:16,880
everywhere is going crazy so we don't go

264
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:18,880
out anymore we sit in the house and

265
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:20,320
slowly the world we're living in is

266
00:10:24,310 --> 00:10:22,480
getting smaller and all we say is please

267
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:24,320
at least leave us alone in our living

268
00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:26,640
rooms let me have my toaster and my tv

269
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:28,480
and my steel belted radials and i won't

270
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,320
say anything just leave us alone well

271
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,640
i'm not going to leave you alone i want

272
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:34,480
you to get mad

273
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:36,079
i don't want you to protest i don't want

274
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:37,440
you to ride i don't want you to write to

275
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,720
your congressman because i wouldn't know

276
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:40,399
what to tell you to write i don't know

277
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,839
what to do about the depression and the

278
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:43,920
inflation and the russians all i know is

279
00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:46,399
that first you've got to get mad you've

280
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:49,360
got to say i'm a human being god damn it

281
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:52,000
my life has value

282
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:53,040
so

283
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:54,480
i want you

284
00:10:58,829 --> 00:10:56,480
to get up now

285
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:58,839
i want all of you to get up out of your

286
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:01,519
chairs i want you to get up right now

287
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:03,279
and go to the window

288
00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:06,560
open it and stick your head out and yell

289
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:09,200
i'm as mad as hell and i'm not gonna

290
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:10,880
take this anymore i'm not gonna take

291
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:12,399
this anymore

292
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:15,920
even if you've never seen the 1976 movie

293
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:18,640
network you know the line delivered by

294
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,320
the one honest newsman howard beale

295
00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:24,240
played by peter finch

296
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:26,399
i'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to

297
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,040
take this anymore crystallizes the anger

298
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,519
and powerlessness felt by the individual

299
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:34,240
who has no recourse optional plan

300
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,760
trapped in a system of lies corruption

301
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:40,079
and control

302
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,959
sounds familiar alex and and welcome to

303
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,720
the show by the way

304
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,519
i welcome you sneaky devil you

305
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:49,839
sneaky sneaky

306
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:53,279
so do do we have to like uh explain the

307
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,480
metaphor here or well you know like we

308
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,079
were just chatting about a minute ago we

309
00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,320
could probably go really deep

310
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:01,920
into that and

311
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:02,880
because there's some spiritual

312
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,800
implications with that too you know i

313
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:06,000
mean

314
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,839
what are we supposed to do are we really

315
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,240
supposed to get angry and given that

316
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,399
that was a movie from way back then and

317
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,880
it still reverberates today what does

318
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:17,040
that say about our situation that we

319
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,079
think is so new and unique and

320
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,160
crafted just for us i don't know man you

321
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:24,480
know that's the whole uh

322
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,000
deep into the rabbit hole that we're

323
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:28,480
gonna go yeah that's for sure and

324
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:31,600
usually you line up these kind of video

325
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,200
clips to reflect on the guests

326
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:37,200
and i think like if you go back to the

327
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:41,519
70s of course nobody did what this uh

328
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,399
character in the movie did but

329
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:46,399
in the movie there was at least one

330
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:49,519
honest newsman and while we may look

331
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:51,920
back at the clumpsy way he wanted to i

332
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:53,600
mean he managed to get everyone out of

333
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:56,720
the windows that's this butterfly effect

334
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,920
you know like mark gober told you in a

335
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,519
recent interview

336
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:03,760
so i kind of think of you in this you're

337
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:06,560
not angry like him but you are trying to

338
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:09,600
shake people out of the sleep and you

339
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:12,399
are seeking truth and

340
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,440
uh i also think you have influence uh

341
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,440
we're gonna review that today actually

342
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,519
okay now i have to say uh before we

343
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:21,920
really get going here is that alex is

344
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:24,720
completely oblivious of most of today's

345
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,440
show he gave me the full power to do it

346
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:29,920
in my way and so

347
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:33,200
we're gonna try to limit the like

348
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:35,120
oh you said when you inflate someone's

349
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:38,320
ego the ass kissing the

350
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,839
bribery i don't know the english word

351
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:41,279
but you know what i mean yeah but if

352
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,880
something like that happens it's not

353
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:44,560
alex fort okay

354
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:47,920
he's as oblivious as the listener well

355
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,240
i've been instructed by you to stay

356
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:52,399
within some very narrow guidelines yes

357
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,639
so yes and i'm always trying to engage

358
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,240
with you because

359
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,240
i love our dialogue so much but i've

360
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,079
been told just to shut up so that's what

361
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:02,480
i'm gonna do today i'm just a robot i'm

362
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:04,399
gonna try not to dominate this thing

363
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:07,199
let's start uh by something that maybe

364
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,360
many listeners are not so aware of and

365
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,120
that's your background i'm talking about

366
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,000
the pre skeptical i mean like like me

367
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:16,560
you're a rather private guy but you

368
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:18,880
share whatever you want i think there's

369
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:20,480
some key

370
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,120
experiences at least that would be

371
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,360
interesting for people who love the show

372
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:27,519
to know about because i think it has

373
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,399
informed i mean we're all a sum total of

374
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:33,360
our experiences right and you you didn't

375
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:35,519
have a career in radio before you

376
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,639
started this so so how how on earth did

377
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:41,040
you end up or i would say what on earth

378
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:43,519
did you do before skeptical

379
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:45,440
well yeah i was really just a business

380
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:46,399
guy

381
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,639
but even before so you know i went to

382
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:50,720
school and i got an undergraduate degree

383
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:53,360
in computers computer science and then i

384
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:58,000
got an mba and my college was really i

385
00:15:00,870 --> 00:14:59,279
have a football i had a football

386
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,880
scholarship i was very focused on

387
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:02,560
playing football and that was kind of my

388
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,920
thing my life you know but i was i i did

389
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:07,199
you know managed to get the

390
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,880
undergraduate degree in the mba and then

391
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:10,160
i went to work

392
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,440
for a consulting company pricewaterhouse

393
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,600
a big eight accounting firm and i was

394
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,680
doing computer programming basically for

395
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:19,279
hire you know they

396
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:20,880
put you in a brooks brothers suit and

397
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,399
then all of a sudden they can bill you

398
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:25,360
out for astronomical amounts of money so

399
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,720
you're sat in a cubicle oh yeah

400
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:30,320
i've done that too

401
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,600
although you know

402
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,680
that's more of a where i worked was kind

403
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:35,600
of a work for hire thing you know so

404
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:38,639
they would rent you out you know and go

405
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:39,519
to

406
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,639
in st louis office in the united states

407
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,880
in saint louis missouri and you know

408
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:48,480
these were the large

409
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,199
you know fortune 100 clients that we had

410
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:53,279
so and then i got a i

411
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,160
so i was doing that and then i wound up

412
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:58,320
in alaska on a job for the state of

413
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:00,959
alaska whoa you lived in alaska yeah i

414
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,680
did in juneau that's hardcore yeah it

415
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,600
was great and uh

416
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:07,600
but i i really decided that this

417
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,160
corporate thing and the cubicle thing

418
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,560
i mean i didn't understand it

419
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,839
that i didn't understand the

420
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,839
soul-crushing part but i understood the

421
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,839
soul-crushing part you know what i mean

422
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:19,839
like i think so many people can relate

423
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:22,399
to this you know you don't exactly you

424
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,759
can't exactly put your finger on what's

425
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:25,440
wrong with this because you're doing

426
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:26,560
what you were

427
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,480
been programmed to do and what you know

428
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,000
what what everyone's telling you is

429
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:32,079
success you know so i was trying to look

430
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,000
for a way out i said you know what i'll

431
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:36,399
go back to school i get a phd i can

432
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,720
teach hang on hang on at this point you

433
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:41,519
already had taken a degree in what

434
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,720
subject

435
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:44,480
so i was undergraduate computer science

436
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:45,839
and then a master's in business

437
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:48,160
administration oh okay so i was kind of

438
00:17:14,630 --> 00:16:49,360
a

439
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,640
i'm getting my phd

440
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:17,120
in information systems and then i

441
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,880
stumbled across this thing artificial

442
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,160
intelligence

443
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:22,319
and i ran into

444
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:25,600
um a guy happened to be you know i never

445
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:27,439
made this connection but it was a

446
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,360
norwegian guy

447
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:31,039
and we became really good friends

448
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,240
oystein and oyste had a scientific

449
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:36,320
norwegian night

450
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,520
he had a similar background to me

451
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:42,000
and he had worked for an accounting firm

452
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,200
like i had

453
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,080
and we both were fascinated with ai and

454
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,559
we started kind of put cobbling together

455
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,360
a curriculum in artificial intelligence

456
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:53,039
and then so that's what we're doing i

457
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,400
was off and running

458
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:56,720
and then i got into it and i got a

459
00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:58,880
couple of uh uh

460
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,600
opportunities to go and teach at

461
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,440
corporations the first one was texas

462
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:05,760
instruments you know the

463
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,039
defense contractor you know but uh a lot

464
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:11,039
of bright people there and they said hey

465
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,799
come on in teach our engineers about

466
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:14,720
artificial intelligence we want to do

467
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,880
that and that led to a job at dupont and

468
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,640
i had all these corporate clients and i

469
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:20,720
was making a lot of money relative at

470
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,360
the time you know i thought wow you know

471
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,840
screw the phd you know i was a couple

472
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:27,360
years into it

473
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,400
i'm going to be

474
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,039
a multi-millionaire in no time with this

475
00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:33,360
ai stuff so i left and i started a

476
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:35,919
company called mind path technologies

477
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,480
in dallas texas and

478
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:40,480
and you invented stuff you're you're an

479
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:43,919
inventor or was an inventor well i i saw

480
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,000
that again

481
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:48,160
you know i just saw that as it the

482
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,120
intellectual property play the ip play

483
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:52,799
you know you're referring to like mark

484
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:55,600
gober that's what he used to do is is is

485
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,000
essential in high tech so i don't know

486
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,320
if i was an inventor as much as from a

487
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:02,000
business standpoint protecting your

488
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,000
intellectual property rate is

489
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:05,919
your intellectual property is a smart

490
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,640
move so i applied for patents and i got

491
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,400
some patents and all the rest of that

492
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,240
but again my play was just about the

493
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,240
money just about getting paid you know i

494
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:16,559
wasn't but surely you must have given

495
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,880
thought to the coin because the concept

496
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,200
of artificial intelligence was new back

497
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:23,280
then that's when it started basically

498
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,440
and i mean i mean of course the concept

499
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,679
has been imagined by people but that's

500
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:29,280
when people started to working with

501
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,559
something that could go in that

502
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,360
direction did you at that point because

503
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,280
you weren't that you it was before you

504
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,200
had explored consciousness and all this

505
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,600
you you probably didn't make your mind

506
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:41,760
up for sure and stuff but did you have

507
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:44,640
any thoughts about if it ever could

508
00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:47,600
become like a real sentient

509
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:50,559
thing did you believe that back then

510
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:53,600
no i didn't because the ai at that point

511
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,240
was so weak and so lame and it was

512
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,919
really kind of

513
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,120
just

514
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,200
it was very hype and for people who were

515
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:03,280
really into information systems in

516
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,120
computer science they saw it as hype

517
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,640
they said this is just computer

518
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,960
programming it's being re-labeled as

519
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,120
artificial intelligence as as clairefy

520
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,080
said um he says trash in trash out

521
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:16,640
something like that well

522
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,320
there's there's that aspect of it the

523
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:20,640
other aspect of it is if anyone who's

524
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,520
ever used a spreadsheet um you know

525
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:25,520
realizes two things that one like the

526
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:28,080
spreadsheet is good for doing stuff that

527
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,840
would be really hard to do manually you

528
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,000
know adding up numbers in a column like

529
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:34,480
they've had to do since the babylonian

530
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,080
times or whatever you know it's really

531
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:38,159
great at that yeah but the other thing

532
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:40,240
that it becomes

533
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,760
something of its own beast if you will

534
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:45,039
because now you can start doing

535
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,480
forecasting with just a simple

536
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:48,799
spreadsheet that would be completely

537
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,360
impossible and that causes from a

538
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,360
consciousness standpoint for you to

539
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,600
imagine problems that you never would

540
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:57,360
have imagined because now you have that

541
00:21:01,110 --> 00:21:00,080
tool and the same thing goes on with ai

542
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,120
so

543
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,840
now you amp that up times a thousand

544
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,520
because that's how i'm gonna do factors

545
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,280
greater it is now

546
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:09,440
and ai is reaching

547
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,640
some

548
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,360
places that no one had

549
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:15,200
had really anticipated and we're not

550
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:16,720
really sure what the implications of

551
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:17,919
those are

552
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,280
you know i'm so all that is is

553
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:23,760
an interesting separate discussion

554
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,960
but at the time no i was just you know

555
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,200
looking to uh i just saw it as an

556
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,720
opportunity really as a business

557
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,000
opportunity

558
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,280
um well with quantum computing

559
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:37,919
that's a game changer so um we have to

560
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,320
watch that spot and see how it develops

561
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:42,559
but i'm still i'm still

562
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:46,720
leaning towards no it's not going to be

563
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:49,039
it's not going to be sentient in any way

564
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:50,960
shape or form but if they can make them

565
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,400
so refined that we can't tell the

566
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,720
difference exactly that i believe oh

567
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,720
yeah so they will become like it may be

568
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,640
a robot right and you think you're

569
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:02,799
interacting with a human being but it's

570
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:04,960
just a super advanced computer program

571
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,880
there's no sentient life or

572
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,919
consciousness

573
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,840
that already goes on today you know if

574
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:10,799
you ever

575
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:15,280
uh the example i always use if you trade

576
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:19,039
stocks you are competing with a robot an

577
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,559
ai robot if you're yeah specific tasks

578
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,360
chess right chess poker but this is for

579
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,039
money right if you go online and you

580
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,760
play online poker for money you're

581
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,240
competing with a robot not all the time

582
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,640
but you're likely to run across a robot

583
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:36,799
so and that's where it really pops up

584
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,960
people think of it as a robot's going to

585
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:41,039
walk up to you and serve you tea

586
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,840
well

587
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,960
no the first time you're going to

588
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,640
encounter a robot and you already are

589
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,720
encountering a robot is when you go onto

590
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:48,400
your screen because that's where they're

591
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,080
the best so again stock trading you know

592
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,080
any anything

593
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:56,880
you know how long you wait in line on

594
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:00,320
for technical support or you know how

595
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,600
whether you're

596
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,440
we all see it in advertising you know

597
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,000
and so all that stuff is where ai is

598
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,480
just it's it's not even worth discussing

599
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,200
its potential it's already here it will

600
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:13,039
further and further

601
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,480
encroach i don't know if that's the

602
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:16,000
right word but you know yeah we're

603
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,679
already there yeah

604
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,919
well folks you'll be so happy you tuned

605
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:21,840
in today see you already got a free

606
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:23,360
business idea

607
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,080
get a super good poker robot

608
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,080
put him in your account and make him

609
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:31,200
play all the different online

610
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,679
competitions etc and just

611
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,039
earn money

612
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:37,200
very good business idea right right but

613
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,159
you

614
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:41,120
had other values or i should say thought

615
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:43,120
process than just business back then

616
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,320
because

617
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:46,240
uh we all know rupert shellwreck was

618
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:48,720
essential in in getting skeptical off

619
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,559
the ground but there is a story between

620
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:54,720
that happened and

621
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:57,440
you deciding to become rich and you

622
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,120
actually manage that

623
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:01,279
i mean see the thing the other thing is

624
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:04,159
that's that again you know this is so

625
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,760
awesome for that you're doing this and

626
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,840
it's it's flattering it's almost also

627
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:09,360
fun you know to go through all this

628
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,480
stuff but

629
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,960
the parallel path i was on that you can

630
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:15,120
relate to and probably resonates with

631
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:18,720
the skeptico show is i was yogi i was a

632
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,159
yogi i don't know why but i knew i was

633
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:25,039
drawn to this stuff and like i i've said

634
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,799
a couple times you know i'm sitting in a

635
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,200
little 400 square foot apartment in

636
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:30,720
dallas texas

637
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:33,679
very small crappy apartment with no rent

638
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:35,600
because i'm an entrepreneur startup and

639
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:36,880
i'm putting all my money into my

640
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:38,880
business and at the same time i'm doing

641
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,159
correspondence courses with yogananda

642
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:44,159
the other the author of autobiography of

643
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:47,120
a yogi and you know it's pretty obscure

644
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,720
stuff if you've ever looked at if you

645
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,720
take those books if you read his book

646
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:52,799
autobiography autobiography of the yogi

647
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:54,559
we're invited to do the correspondence

648
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:55,840
courses which

649
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:57,279
you know i've been down to the center i

650
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:58,799
now live like

651
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,520
i i i ride my bike uh

652
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,760
many days up to a little peak where i

653
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:06,720
look out over at yogananda's

654
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,279
uh ashram wow it's it's unbelievable

655
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,960
this connection that i have and i do

656
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,080
yoga

657
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:14,559
is he is he buried in in california i

658
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:18,080
don't think he is um or ashram you're

659
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,320
not the grave yeah of course yeah yeah

660
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,159
so and and he has several centers he has

661
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,480
a center in la but he has a really

662
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:26,880
significant one in encinitas california

663
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:28,799
near where i live it's really beautiful

664
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,880
and has a lotus flower and there's a

665
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,799
yoga uh cafe

666
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,880
or swami's cafe right across the street

667
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:36,559
and you know when i talked to rizwerk

668
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,000
who we'll probably talk about in the

669
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:39,760
show

670
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,000
funny thing is and funny thing you know

671
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,200
coincidences so i'm interviewing riz and

672
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:46,720
fantastic

673
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:50,799
genius mit computer scientist

674
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,760
game ai expert simulation theory expert

675
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:54,960
and he goes hey

676
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:56,880
i was just and this is before i'd give

677
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,279
him the whole yoga thing he goes i was

678
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:02,400
just contracted by

679
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,799
an amer an indian publisher with an

680
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:06,720
american connection to do an

681
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,279
autobiography or to do a biography of

682
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:10,880
yogananda

683
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,559
and i said so then i told him the whole

684
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,159
thing my connection to yogananda i said

685
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,840
when you come down let me know

686
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:17,840
you know it's right up the road we'll go

687
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,200
to the swami's cafe so i didn't see it

688
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,840
as particularly unusual that i had this

689
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,200
intense

690
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:27,200
you know pull towards yoga and at the

691
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,000
same time i was all about the money and

692
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:31,919
that i was doing as an entrepreneur and

693
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:34,000
i'm doing the correspondence classes but

694
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:35,520
that's was

695
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,080
that's what i was about so it was like

696
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:40,559
as soon as i had a chance to

697
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,440
cash in my business i was like great

698
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:46,080
that's out of the way now

699
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:48,400
now back to the stuff that i really want

700
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,000
to explore which is

701
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,159
you know who am i why am i here and as

702
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:54,480
much as i was a yogi i was skeptical of

703
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:57,039
all that crap because yeah let me add a

704
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,559
couple of things because we're going to

705
00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:00,080
leave that subject matter just on

706
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,159
yogananda he was also freemason

707
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:04,720
initiated into

708
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:07,360
freemasonic order now um did not know

709
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:10,960
that no most people don't but this was

710
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:13,039
in the time you remember when the

711
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:16,320
skeptics had this outreach where they

712
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,559
were so

713
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,600
visible in everywhere

714
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,760
this must have been that time right

715
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:24,799
yes

716
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:27,840
right so you got drawn into that uh

717
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:30,080
those debates that was happening there

718
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:32,960
oh yeah that was a big part of

719
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,360
of what my show wound up being about

720
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,360
initially not because of i was pointed

721
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,120
in that direction but

722
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:41,840
as soon as you started to explore any of

723
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,399
this stuff you encountered these people

724
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:47,120
in a very major way and i don't want to

725
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:51,039
step three four steps ahead but boy i

726
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,240
look back

727
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,279
on what what what all that was about and

728
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,760
i see it completely differently than i

729
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,279
did at the time

730
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,399
and i think that vantage point which you

731
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:04,880
and i have talked about has really been

732
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:07,360
brought into focus by the pandemic more

733
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:09,600
than anything else it's kind of we all

734
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:11,120
took them more seriously than they

735
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:15,039
deserve but um but back then uh

736
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,440
when uh i mean you

737
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:19,760
i mean in skeptical you went into the

738
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,080
whole problem with the no-nonsense

739
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:24,720
businessman's attitude which is

740
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,039
fantastic it's the same with the with

741
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,039
mark ober that i actually interviewed

742
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:31,760
yesterday i mean i've never had a guest

743
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,799
who's so succinct and to the point you

744
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:36,320
should have to fight with the guests

745
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,440
over the world

746
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,200
he answers your question

747
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:41,120
exactly as you are asked it and then

748
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,000
he's done

749
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,840
said to his defense yeah i'm used to

750
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:47,679
being on board meetings

751
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:49,919
so i'm i'm thinking i'm thinking you

752
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,480
took some of that no-nonsense approach

753
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,640
uh into skeptical but

754
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,320
actually that's going too far

755
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:57,600
you must have discovered rupert

756
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,480
shellwreck at some point um and that

757
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:02,720
conflict i i did well

758
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:05,440
the way i discovered sheldrick is kind

759
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:06,720
of as you're talking about you know i'll

760
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,399
have different personalities and then

761
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,320
we're our personalities are shaped by

762
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,640
our training you know so yeah my

763
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,120
training both as a

764
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:17,440
computer programmer and as a business

765
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:18,559
person

766
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:19,520
was

767
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:20,799
pragmatic

768
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:24,240
uh like you say kind of sort through the

769
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:26,480
[\h__\h] which you're surrounded by in

770
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,919
business i mean a lot of people who are

771
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:29,679
not in business don't realize that but i

772
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,559
mean

773
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:32,720
you you're just surrounded by that you

774
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:35,440
either learn how to sort through it very

775
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:38,399
quickly or you're just or you don't get

776
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:41,600
very far you're just plowed under so i

777
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,080
you get sheldrick you understand shelby

778
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,080
sheldrick is that

779
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,640
that energy in a lot of ways seldrik

780
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,559
sheldrick is a nice guy but he's kind of

781
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,640
a no [\h__\h] guy you know and he

782
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:55,279
doesn't suffer fools mildly

783
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,039
and but in a very

784
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:59,440
polite way so i just like the

785
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,360
matter-of-fact way that

786
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,760
he talked about this stuff and i was

787
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,360
drawn to that and at the same time dean

788
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:07,360
braden i mean

789
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,559
again the the coincidence thing versus

790
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,799
you know right timing thing but my first

791
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,159
two interviews were with dean raiden and

792
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,480
rupert sheldrick yeah back then uh right

793
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:18,159
right hard to top that

794
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:19,760
yeah of course but back then i don't

795
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:21,919
think raiden was i mean he was very well

796
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,520
known in in academic circles back then

797
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:28,080
uh sheldrick had already gotten a name

798
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:30,240
outside of those circles

799
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,039
but okay so you discovered this thing

800
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:35,120
and and

801
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,320
i think you were in touch with

802
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,240
shelbrecht too before you launched the

803
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:40,559
show i actually got in touch with

804
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,640
sheldrick and i said somebody needs to

805
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,240
somebody needs to be interviewing you

806
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:47,919
more and getting your opinions out there

807
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,760
and he said why don't you do it right

808
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,279
and i said i don't i don't know anything

809
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,720
about that i've never done i don't do

810
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,640
that but we got to get somebody else

811
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:57,440
right we have i actually have lined up

812
00:31:02,710 --> 00:30:59,760
your your explanation of how it all

813
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:02,720
started let's listen to that and then

814
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:05,279
okay and then a comment but you know

815
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,200
since sheldrick was such a crucial

816
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,440
figure to get it started i wonder what

817
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:11,600
take he would have on it you know what

818
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:14,159
let's use the power of imagination as

819
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:16,720
one says so if rupert was with us right

820
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,120
now i would simply ask him how would you

821
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:21,600
describe the inception of skeptical as

822
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,679
well as his evolution and what message

823
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,360
would you have for alex

824
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,120
take it away rupert

825
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:29,360
yes well so the thing is i can't say

826
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:31,440
very much about his recent activity you

827
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,399
know because

828
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:34,480
i don't follow podcasts much because i

829
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:37,039
don't drive cars or jog or anything so

830
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,279
um i do watch youtubes a bit but not um

831
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:44,000
so i haven't been following the skeptico

832
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:46,960
podcast in detail so when i look at the

833
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,519
website it seems that his scope is now

834
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,360
considerably broader and he's dealing

835
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:54,080
with political type issues as well as

836
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,360
the mere the skeptic situation but uh

837
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,120
no i'd be happy to talk about things i

838
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:01,440
hopefully do know a bit about so a long

839
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,640
time ago

840
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:04,960
i was running a website called

841
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,360
skepticalinvestigations.org

842
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:09,679
which has now changed its name some

843
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:12,880
years ago to skeptical about skeptics

844
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:15,840
and the reason i was doing that was that

845
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,720
um i was just really annoyed at the way

846
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,039
that these so-called skeptics who are

847
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:24,000
basically dogmatic materialists were

848
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:25,919
getting away with murder they were

849
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:27,519
pretending to be

850
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,000
the voice of the science establishment

851
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,399
and the voice of science and reason they

852
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,559
were taken seriously by the media they

853
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:36,480
were always appearing on at least on

854
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,200
british media and in american media

855
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:41,679
and they had a well-funded campaign

856
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:43,279
through the committee for skeptical

857
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:46,240
inquiry or cycop as it then was the

858
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,360
committee for the scientific

859
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,880
investigation of claims of the

860
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:50,159
paranormal

861
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:53,039
um you know well-funded way of trying to

862
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,240
dominate the media and to keep anything

863
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:58,159
about parapsychology

864
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,200
out of serious media and the educational

865
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:03,919
system and dominate wikipedia

866
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,919
well all of that was something really

867
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,760
annoyed me and and i thought there has

868
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,480
to be a countervailing voice and so with

869
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:12,159
a group of

870
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:13,919
other people doing research in these

871
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:16,320
areas we started this website skeptical

872
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:19,519
investigations to investigate skeptics

873
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:20,799
and the

874
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:25,120
polemics not to

875
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,279
be rude or have personal attacks but

876
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,519
simply to have dossiers showing how

877
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,519
little scientific credibility most of

878
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:32,720
them have

879
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,679
and

880
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,679
you know how flawed their arguments are

881
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,080
and how uninterested they are in reason

882
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,840
and evidence even though they claim to

883
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:40,880
be

884
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:44,480
so anyway um alex read this uh website

885
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:46,320
and read articles on it and he got in

886
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,600
touch with me

887
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:49,919
and said he liked this approach and was

888
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:52,880
you know thought it was very helpful and

889
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:55,919
what could he do to get involved

890
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,480
and there wasn't a lot he could do to

891
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:01,120
get involved with the website because

892
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,399
you know he could have written some

893
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:04,880
articles but he had plenty of time and

894
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,560
energy um and that would have been a

895
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,960
slightly waste of his energies and i've

896
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,560
forgotten whether he brought it up or

897
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:14,240
whether i did we had some telephone

898
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,440
calls

899
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:18,079
and i suggested or he suggested a

900
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:20,240
podcast dealing with these kinds of

901
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:21,440
themes

902
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,839
i've forgotten whose idea it was in the

903
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:25,599
first place but anyway

904
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,040
it became a podcast and

905
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:31,919
he did it very well i mean he

906
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:34,639
really went in depth into these various

907
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,679
topics

908
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:38,159
and so anyway he launched the skeptico

909
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:39,440
podcast

910
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,560
and then um he at one stage i met i've

911
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:45,280
only met him once in person um

912
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,000
he was doing a film about consciousness

913
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:50,320
i was teaching at the esselyn institute

914
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:53,440
in california and he came by and we did

915
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:56,000
an interview there for his film uh one

916
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,599
of the problems with the interview was

917
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,760
the ocean waves were so loud that it was

918
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:01,440
slightly hard to hear what either of us

919
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:02,720
were saying

920
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,680
um

921
00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:05,440
because it was right by the pacific

922
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,079
ocean anyway that so so it started

923
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,800
really with alex contacting me before he

924
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:13,200
started skeptical you know discussing

925
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,280
the general situation what's going on

926
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:17,119
and at that time

927
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:18,400
as you

928
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,359
might know he wasn't particularly

929
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:23,040
against the skeptics he thought they

930
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,960
might be right i think he genuinely

931
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:26,800
wanted to find out

932
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,320
who was right you know the people who

933
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,079
did psychic research and claimed there

934
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,320
were phenomena really happening like the

935
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,480
sense of being stared at and telepathy

936
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:35,920
and dogs that they were in their owns

937
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:37,520
are coming home

938
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,480
or

939
00:35:42,829 --> 00:35:40,560
whether the skeptics were right and that

940
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,839
the whole of this was just deluded

941
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:44,800
pseudoscience and

942
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,680
he was genuinely keen to find out and so

943
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:50,720
he interviewed people on both sides and

944
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,760
i think that as a result of that

945
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:55,760
he fairly soon realized that actually

946
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,240
the skeptics didn't have very much to

947
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:01,359
say except denialism and denunciation

948
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,400
and

949
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:04,640
in some cases

950
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,280
misleading claims

951
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:10,480
i feel that alex's interviews went in

952
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,560
greater depth than almost any others in

953
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,320
this area because

954
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:16,079
he was not

955
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:17,280
trying to

956
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:22,320
at the other side and for example

957
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:24,560
i had a long running dispute with

958
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:26,720
richard wiseman who claimed that dogs

959
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,000
didn't know when their owners were

960
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:30,560
coming home even though when he did an

961
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,320
experiment with the dog i was working

962
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:34,400
with he got the same results as me that

963
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,000
actually confirmed my data

964
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:40,000
and there's been a lot written since

965
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,359
then about his misleading claims and

966
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:45,520
uh the way he managed to get his claims

967
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:48,400
all over the newspapers as if he could

968
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,560
totally debunk this phenomenon when he'd

969
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,720
confirmed it and it was an extremely

970
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:54,400
misleading operation

971
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,720
but alex really went into this you know

972
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,400
he interviewed richard wiseman he

973
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,079
interviewed me he read the various

974
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,640
papers and then in one of the programs

975
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:04,320
he had us on together in a kind of

976
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:06,800
debate and you know no one else had done

977
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,839
that and it was really helpful

978
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,320
to have a forum in which people could

979
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:14,880
hear both sides of this argument

980
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,359
because normally in the skeptic

981
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,119
media i mean for example michael

982
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:21,040
sherman's skeptic column in scientific

983
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,400
american or

984
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:25,200
the skeptical inquirer or skeptical

985
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,400
claims in

986
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:28,800
newspapers and the media

987
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:32,560
you only hear their side and um

988
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:33,599
so it was

989
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,640
really um unusual to have a forum where

990
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,240
both sides could be heard and i think

991
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:40,320
that's one of the great strengths

992
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,800
of um of alex and and his whole project

993
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:47,440
alex has that not only the skills of

994
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,599
interviewing people and the energy to

995
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:51,680
make this podcast work

996
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:52,880
but um

997
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,480
he was has also had various proactive

998
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:58,400
enterprises and more like an

999
00:38:01,829 --> 00:38:00,160
investigative journalist i mean there's

1000
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:01,839
something about his style which is that

1001
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:04,720
of a good investigative journalist

1002
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:05,760
and

1003
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,400
at one stage you remember the late james

1004
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:10,480
randy was always going around saying he

1005
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:12,560
got this million dollar prize for anyone

1006
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,880
who could show psychic phenomena

1007
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,400
and he used this

1008
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:18,560
as a media stunt

1009
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:19,760
and the

1010
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,520
the rank and file of the skeptic

1011
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,839
movement it would reiterate his claims

1012
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,599
if it's so good why don't why don't you

1013
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:27,440
claim the million dollars

1014
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:28,720
so um

1015
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,280
alex did actually try and claim the

1016
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:34,079
million dollars he um found a dog that

1017
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,320
knew it only was coming home in

1018
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:39,119
in in the united states um

1019
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:39,920
he

1020
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,520
his owner was coming home

1021
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:54,079
and this was based on my own work on the

1022
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:55,200
subject

1023
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:56,400
um

1024
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:00,160
and randy who'd lied about doing

1025
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,680
experiments of his own which he never

1026
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:04,079
did and lied about analyzing my data

1027
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:05,520
which he never saw

1028
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:06,880
in detail

1029
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:08,960
it was obviously

1030
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:11,200
rather reluctant to get involved and so

1031
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,000
he simply didn't reply to emails he

1032
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:15,760
tried to fob

1033
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,320
alex off i mean alex can tell the story

1034
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:20,240
better than me

1035
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:22,640
but basically it became very clear that

1036
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:24,960
he had wanted nothing to do with this

1037
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:27,440
investigation and dismissed it as a

1038
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,480
stupid

1039
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:30,240
um

1040
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,960
stage he told alex

1041
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:36,800
he got better things to do than listen

1042
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:40,640
to stupid dog stories um so far from

1043
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:44,400
being open-minded and inquiring into the

1044
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,119
phenomenon as his many of his supporters

1045
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:48,880
thought he was i thought this was a

1046
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:51,599
genuine scientific endeavor

1047
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,440
he basically only wanted to expose and

1048
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,280
debunk people with this prize which he

1049
00:40:02,069 --> 00:39:59,599
never intended to award and it was also

1050
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,079
very questionable if he actually had the

1051
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,240
million dollars even in pledges he

1052
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:06,400
claimed not to have it actually an

1053
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,280
actual

1054
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:09,920
a bank deposit but claimed that a lot of

1055
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,440
people had pledged to give it have

1056
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:13,520
called upon to do so

1057
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:15,680
all that was very questionable

1058
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,760
the point is alex called his bluff by

1059
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,680
actually

1060
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,359
having a research project that would

1061
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:23,760
have qualified for the prize and then

1062
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:27,520
finding um randy back out and try and

1063
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:30,640
dismiss it and that was a very powerful

1064
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:33,200
investigation no one else had done that

1065
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:34,800
and a lot of people were frightened of

1066
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:36,319
randy

1067
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,720
and alex called his bluff and it was a

1068
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:40,880
great thing to do and i i think he he

1069
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,640
did a great job there

1070
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,880
i think so and um

1071
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,960
and i think he really did help change

1072
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:48,640
the culture i mean

1073
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:52,079
the skeptics have been a lot less um

1074
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:53,280
aggressive

1075
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:55,520
um the area where they're still

1076
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:57,680
completely in control and where they do

1077
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,119
the most harm

1078
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:01,920
is wikipedia and anything nothing

1079
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,079
anyone's done has managed to solve that

1080
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,640
problem even alex hasn't

1081
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,720
solved the wikipedia problem because as

1082
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,319
you know they've captured the

1083
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:12,240
biographies of people like me and all

1084
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,119
the pages to do with parapsychology and

1085
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,280
psychic research they've defined

1086
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:19,440
parapsychology as a pseudoscience and

1087
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,560
therefore

1088
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,240
everything to do with it

1089
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,200
is dismissed and derided

1090
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,880
they just they they're very keen to

1091
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,520
describe me as a parapsychologist which

1092
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,359
i've never claimed to be i

1093
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,000
i call myself a biologist but the reason

1094
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,400
they do that is because on

1095
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:39,280
on wikipedia parapsychology is defined

1096
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:40,960
as pseudoscience

1097
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:43,760
so calling someone a parapsychologist

1098
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,280
basically classifies them as a

1099
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,119
pseudoscientist and

1100
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:49,760
they're still getting away with it um

1101
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:52,079
it will take more than alex to change

1102
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,560
the culture of wikipedia i'm afraid but

1103
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,400
i hope he's changing the culture

1104
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:58,560
surrounding it in such a way that it

1105
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:01,520
does eventually change

1106
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:04,160
my message to alex is thank you and keep

1107
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,240
up the good work we really need

1108
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,720
independent voices people with real

1109
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:11,040
curiosity and intelligence

1110
00:42:14,829 --> 00:42:12,319
who are prepared to look at

1111
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:14,839
controversial issues um

1112
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:19,440
without being a a polemicist on who have

1113
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:21,760
an open-minded approach and i think it's

1114
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,920
very important to model that

1115
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,599
and there are very few people in the

1116
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:28,319
world doing this so i'm really pleased

1117
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:31,200
alex has done it and i very much hope

1118
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:33,200
he'll continue

1119
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:35,920
of course that was dr chelbrack himself

1120
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:38,400
who was happy to phone in to deliver his

1121
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:41,680
comment to this anniversary show okay so

1122
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:45,119
we got his take on that alex i suppose

1123
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:48,560
you can confirm his his uh

1124
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:51,119
description of how it proceeds

1125
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:53,920
i am i am grinning from ear to ear it's

1126
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,119
like in

1127
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:57,200
like you know the connecting with an old

1128
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:58,880
friend and uh

1129
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:02,319
what a giant yeah we we say

1130
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,680
it's been said you know we stand on the

1131
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,359
shoulders of giants

1132
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,680
rupert sheldrick is just such a giant

1133
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:10,400
and just someone who's stood up to that

1134
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,359
i'm itching itching itching

1135
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,079
to talk about this topic but i feel like

1136
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,560
we're gonna it would propel us too far

1137
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:20,160
forward you're right especially the

1138
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:21,599
skeptics we're getting back to them

1139
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,040
we're still at the inception of

1140
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:25,520
skeptical and and the the one thing that

1141
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:28,319
i that i'd throw out as a teaser for

1142
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:31,359
anyone is i remember when rupert and i

1143
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:35,280
met in eslin and his wife was there too

1144
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,560
who's uh very very uh accomplished

1145
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,040
therapist and very intelligent woman

1146
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,680
and uh the topic of randy came up and

1147
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:45,680
one of the things that came up from them

1148
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:48,640
which totally caught me off by surprise

1149
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:51,680
again and here's the hint spoiler

1150
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,200
is that randy was somehow involved with

1151
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,000
pedophilia or some kind of oh my god

1152
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:00,400
they were onto him back then they were

1153
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,599
on to him back then wow and they didn't

1154
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,119
say they said it

1155
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,720
they said it in a way i want to make

1156
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,960
sure that i'm not like

1157
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:11,119
they just said it in kind of an off the

1158
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:14,560
couple you've heard the rumors about him

1159
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:15,359
and

1160
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:18,079
little boys or or boys or young men or

1161
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,240
whatever i forget the exact phrase but

1162
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:22,640
it was just that it was all that stuff

1163
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,000
is so that is so pre epstein and pre you

1164
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,480
know a pizzagate and all that stuff it

1165
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:30,079
just had a different impact and i

1166
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:32,160
remember hearing that and i'm going

1167
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:33,920
why would they be saying that these are

1168
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,240
super credible button down british

1169
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:38,240
people i'm surprised that they're

1170
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:39,920
disclosing something unless they really

1171
00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:41,839
know something so even though they're

1172
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:44,079
saying it in a kind of which i think he

1173
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,760
generally was you know and i think it

1174
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:47,280
was actually his wife he said it it's

1175
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,040
just it's a rumor you know it's not like

1176
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:51,599
i'm confirming it and now i'm spreading

1177
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:53,359
that rumor but it's 15 years later and

1178
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,440
all the stuff has come out on randy so i

1179
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,520
feel like i'm not it's more than a rumor

1180
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:59,599
yeah i don't feel like i'm violating any

1181
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,240
confidence here other than to say that

1182
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:04,880
that was a rumor that was circulating at

1183
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:08,160
that point and they had some awareness

1184
00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:10,319
of it

1185
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:13,119
well that's super interesting um

1186
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,800
yeah he's a matter of fact guy and

1187
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:18,960
he pointed out a very important thing he

1188
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:20,319
said that

1189
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:21,599
he got impression that you were

1190
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,680
sincerely inquiring you weren't there to

1191
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:25,359
have an agenda

1192
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,640
but find out and and that's you know i

1193
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,079
told you before

1194
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:32,319
i never i never listened to podcast

1195
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:35,119
before i started my uh podcast back in

1196
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,319
15 but of course some small drips had

1197
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,480
reached me and i remember

1198
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:42,240
back at that time when there was this

1199
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:44,000
big skeptic uh

1200
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:45,440
brouhaha

1201
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,960
then

1202
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,480
some episodes of

1203
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,560
skeptical reached me there were people

1204
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,119
in my circle who listened to it so

1205
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,440
especially through facebook right and i

1206
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:57,440
have to say alex

1207
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,119
skeptical especially in the beginning it

1208
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:01,760
was like a public court right kind of

1209
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,800
people i knew spiritual people who are a

1210
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:07,440
little academic agnostic people and even

1211
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:09,119
atheists were following you in the

1212
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:11,280
beginning and everybody was like you

1213
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,920
know how people are tribalists right and

1214
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,400
even back then they were

1215
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:19,119
especially on this issue so i i think

1216
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,520
the different sides those who had

1217
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,520
defined asides they were very excited

1218
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,280
because they wanted they were probably

1219
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:27,280
sure their side would win and then there

1220
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:28,720
were all the people in between which

1221
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:31,119
were more my friends

1222
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:34,079
uh who were sincerely excited too to

1223
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,400
find out because the people really

1224
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,880
picked up that you were gonna get like

1225
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:40,720
shelbrick said he said there weren't

1226
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:43,680
many forums for both sides and we're

1227
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,640
going to get back to that too because

1228
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,119
that's a huge problem but you managed in

1229
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:51,359
the beginning to do that so i guess you

1230
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,839
planned already when you talked with uh

1231
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,480
shelbrick about launching a podcast i

1232
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,400
guess you already planned on to get him

1233
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,640
on at the first show

1234
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:02,079
right well again you know when i first

1235
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,720
approached him i was like

1236
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:06,720
you need to do a podcast

1237
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,480
and he's like i don't know how to do

1238
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,400
that and i go well it's easy you know

1239
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,079
we'll just hire somebody and we'll get

1240
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,880
somebody and he's like okay but

1241
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:16,880
and and rupert's really great at this in

1242
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:19,920
a very very uh positive way of kind of

1243
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,160
pulling people in and then

1244
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:23,760
giving he's

1245
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,280
tremendously as you can hear he's a j

1246
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,599
he's a very straightforward guy but he's

1247
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,359
extremely generous

1248
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,440
of spirit you know like he would never

1249
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:33,200
be one not to

1250
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,880
credit someone for something that they

1251
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:36,960
did the opposite you know i mean he's

1252
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:39,200
done so much and he's crediting other

1253
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,640
people which is

1254
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:42,319
again those are i think he's rather

1255
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:46,000
humble for a scientist he is yeah he is

1256
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:48,559
so he's he's a light bearer you know he

1257
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,440
is gladiator of the light it just comes

1258
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,680
through that's who he is that's who

1259
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:56,000
that's what i want to be that's who you

1260
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:58,880
are that's our those are our models in

1261
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,359
yeah in life in our culture but anyways

1262
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:04,000
so it was purely that of saying hey you

1263
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:06,160
ought to do this this isn't hard you

1264
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,680
could do it again i'm a tech guy so i'm

1265
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:09,200
like this isn't hard and he's like i

1266
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:10,480
don't know how to do that i'm not a tech

1267
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:12,319
guy i go okay i'll do it and i said well

1268
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,839
we'll hire someone to do the interview

1269
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,280
and the first guy contacted do the

1270
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,720
interview he did a terrible job i was

1271
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,599
like well

1272
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:19,359
i know i can do a lot better than that

1273
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,760
so then they're there yeah i was

1274
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:23,440
in the seat yeah you had a passion but

1275
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:26,400
but just i mean back in 2007

1276
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:28,720
podcasts hadn't taken off i mean people

1277
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,240
knew what it was

1278
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:31,760
but it wasn't the same thing did you

1279
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:34,079
listen already then to joe rogan and

1280
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:35,920
stuff how did you even

1281
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:37,680
understand that i was into all that

1282
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:41,359
stuff i was into you know i was the um i

1283
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:42,240
don't know

1284
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,599
again i'm not going to ask you questions

1285
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,839
but i was in the lifelong learning mode

1286
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:48,960
so i was like recording radio

1287
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:50,720
interviews and so i thought i could

1288
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:52,800
listen to them on my

1289
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:55,520
you know little walkman kind of

1290
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,400
mp3 walkman kind of thing you know i was

1291
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:59,920
and then when podcasting came out i was

1292
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,760
like great i'm already doing this let's

1293
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:03,680
do some more it wasn't like a big you

1294
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:05,839
know this is the next no big transition

1295
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:08,800
no it wasn't but were you aware of

1296
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:11,520
solely podcast shows well i mean i know

1297
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:12,480
many

1298
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:14,839
media show mainstream media shows were

1299
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,359
podcasted i guess that's how it uh

1300
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,280
originated that there was an archive for

1301
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:21,520
mainstream media shows but

1302
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:24,720
were you all also listening to mere pure

1303
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:27,680
podcasts like joe rogan

1304
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:30,160
i think rogan was going already then no

1305
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:31,599
i don't think he was i mean as soon as

1306
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:33,280
that stuff started to happen i was all

1307
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:34,880
over it yeah i mean because

1308
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,640
yeah it was a small little community and

1309
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,720
that was what i wanted i was interested

1310
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,319
in the content so i was looking for the

1311
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:42,400
content wherever i could find it

1312
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,800
i think a lot of people at the time were

1313
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,640
and that's how they found skeptico

1314
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,240
because there wasn't

1315
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:50,640
a lot of this kind of content out there

1316
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:51,839
yeah okay

1317
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:54,559
i'm looking now uh i'm fact checking us

1318
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:58,079
as we speak um

1319
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,000
damn you started before rogan man

1320
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,559
he started december 24 that's christmas

1321
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:06,240
eve 2009.

1322
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:09,839
no okay yeah that sounds right wow

1323
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:13,280
see when i call you the godfather it's

1324
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,839
it's it's not an exaggeration man

1325
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:19,920
okay but let's just be clear here the

1326
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,960
first skeptical podcast was aired

1327
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:24,720
january 7

1328
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:27,040
2007

1329
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:29,119
so in other words you already started a

1330
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,079
late 2006. now um

1331
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,400
okay we're actually a few weeks on

1332
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:36,960
overtime for the birthday

1333
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,720
but um let's uh let's check out

1334
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:42,640
what it sounded like this is you

1335
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,400
introducing the first skeptical show

1336
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:48,000
i'm alex sacaris and i'm going to be

1337
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,240
your host at least on this first episode

1338
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,079
of the show i say that because one of

1339
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,240
the purposes of this first episode is to

1340
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:56,480
find other like-minded people who want

1341
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,880
to join the skeptical team first let me

1342
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,640
tell you what skeptico is all about

1343
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,640
there's a problem today with the way

1344
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:04,800
science gets reported the way it gets

1345
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,280
packaged and delivered and most of all

1346
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:09,839
the way it gets filtered by a few loud

1347
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,440
voices that seem to dominate the

1348
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:13,440
conversation now i'm coming at this

1349
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:15,520
perspective as a non-scientist a

1350
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:18,079
computer guy a guy who dug into the

1351
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,760
science behind some of the biggest new

1352
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:21,599
discoveries of our time was pretty

1353
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,319
amazed at what i found take for example

1354
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,480
our guest on this episode dr rupert

1355
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:29,040
sheldrick here's a top-notch scientist a

1356
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,280
guy received his phd at cambridge and

1357
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,119
has spent the last 25 years doing

1358
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:34,800
experiments publishing peer-reviewed

1359
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,040
papers and doing all the stuff that good

1360
00:51:42,309 --> 00:51:40,079
scientists do very very impressive stuff

1361
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:42,319
the only problem with dr sheldrick's

1362
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,800
work is what he's discovered namely that

1363
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:46,880
there's a field of awareness or memory

1364
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:49,040
that permeates our consciousness

1365
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:51,839
and that this field explains things like

1366
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:53,119
telepathy

1367
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:54,640
now as soon as you mention something

1368
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:57,280
like telepathy or psychic phenomena or

1369
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:00,400
god or reincarnation a lot of scientific

1370
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,960
people immediately shut down or go on

1371
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:05,040
the attack without ever looking at the

1372
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:07,040
data without ever engaging in

1373
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,040
intelligent dialogue and that's

1374
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:11,440
something we hope to change on this show

1375
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:12,640
with your help

1376
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,400
and with the help of scientific experts

1377
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:16,400
on both sides of these issues we're

1378
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,480
going to create an open honest

1379
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,240
intelligent discussion about new

1380
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:22,079
scientific discoveries

1381
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:23,920
especially those that go against what

1382
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:26,160
the mainstream media is willing to give

1383
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,280
serious attention to

1384
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,440
yeah i guess this was so long ago it was

1385
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,000
before your voice had cracked

1386
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:36,240
but but you we can hear hear your

1387
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:41,200
intentions and man you actually achieved

1388
00:52:45,750 --> 00:52:43,200
what you set out to do this is the

1389
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:45,760
evidence we just heard what you said

1390
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,000
now before we we comment upon anything

1391
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:49,839
further i also want to play a couple of

1392
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:52,400
other clips uh where you describe how it

1393
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,240
all started

1394
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:56,559
and by the way folks when i play back

1395
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,000
clips of

1396
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:00,400
previous of all skeptical stuff

1397
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:03,599
i've speeded up for practical reasons so

1398
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,680
he he doesn't talk that

1399
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:07,119
quick and hectic

1400
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,720
uh as it sounds

1401
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:10,800
it's just for practicality but let's

1402
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,359
hear how you because there was this dude

1403
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:15,040
personal friend of you i think who

1404
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,040
managed to squeeze you

1405
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,359
for the same thing i managed to now

1406
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:21,839
namely to get you to show up to uh i

1407
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:24,559
think it was like a 200 show anniversary

1408
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:27,200
yes and it was very useful uh you

1409
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:29,040
basically said everything there is to

1410
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,559
say back then

1411
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:32,480
the difference between now and then of

1412
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:35,359
course is you have much much time

1413
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:37,200
behind you so

1414
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,720
of course you have

1415
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:40,160
further perspectives and we're going to

1416
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:41,440
get back to that but let's just hear

1417
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:42,640
what you said

1418
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:45,520
in show i think it was show 200 about

1419
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:48,240
how it all started this is like alex's

1420
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:51,920
version of what we heard shel rick say

1421
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:53,839
well you know i started out as a

1422
00:53:58,230 --> 00:53:55,839
listener i've always been very

1423
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:58,240
interested in not only these topics but

1424
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:01,680
in general in the idea that i can learn

1425
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:04,400
i can get better i can improve by

1426
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,599
absorbing the knowledge from other

1427
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:07,520
people so i was a listener and i became

1428
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:10,559
quite interested in the whole idea of

1429
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,520
parapsychology and kind of paranormal

1430
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:15,680
phenomena just at a very casual level

1431
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:17,920
like anyone who watches tv

1432
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,319
that eventually led me to dr rupert

1433
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,119
cheldrick who is guest number one of

1434
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,680
skeptico and the conversation i had with

1435
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:27,760
rupert was along the lines of hey this

1436
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:30,400
is interesting why isn't anyone

1437
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:33,680
talking about this in a serious way

1438
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:36,160
interviewing these researchers and

1439
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:38,079
analyzing what they have to say versus

1440
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:40,640
what people who oppose them have to say

1441
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:42,000
and he said i don't know and i said well

1442
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,599
we ought to make that happen and i'm

1443
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,440
willing to fund this you know let's hire

1444
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:47,920
somebody to go do the show and that was

1445
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,160
really how it started is i was going to

1446
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,119
fund a show because i'm not a producer

1447
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:55,520
of any sort and i'm not a radio guy or

1448
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,000
anything like that well we went down

1449
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,559
that path and i asked rupert for

1450
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:02,640
suggestions of who might be good for the

1451
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,839
show and and that kind of played out and

1452
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:07,680
it's like so many things you hear about

1453
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:10,000
you know there wasn't anybody so i

1454
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:12,480
stepped in and to do it and

1455
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:14,480
after a couple shows really i was pretty

1456
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:17,119
well hooked on doing it and i was hooked

1457
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,119
on the fact that if i tried to

1458
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,839
subcontract this out it wouldn't really

1459
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:24,000
fit what i was looking for i wouldn't

1460
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,400
get the questions that i want asked and

1461
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:28,160
answered those wouldn't come on the

1462
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,599
table because everyone does bring a

1463
00:55:32,829 --> 00:55:31,119
different perspective to these things so

1464
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:32,839
that's really how it all

1465
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,839
started a quick one about his personal

1466
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,599
motives

1467
00:55:41,430 --> 00:55:39,280
you know what i've said repeatedly to

1468
00:55:44,789 --> 00:55:41,440
people and i've had to say it so that i

1469
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:44,799
can remind myself of it and and gain as

1470
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,200
much humility as i can and that's that

1471
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,359
this is my journey you know this is my

1472
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,599
little trick this skeptico show and the

1473
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,160
opportunity to provide this on the

1474
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,160
internet and itunes and thousands of

1475
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:58,079
people and all that hey man that's just

1476
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:59,359
a little trick so i get to call these

1477
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:00,880
people up and talk to them because if i

1478
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:02,240
just called him up and talked to no one

1479
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:06,000
attacked me so the idea of a show

1480
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:08,559
and a regular schedule

1481
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:11,280
and a continuation of it or anything

1482
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:13,280
like that is just

1483
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:14,319
for me

1484
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:17,520
an outgrowth of this desire to talk to

1485
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:18,480
folks

1486
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,480
and so those are just that's just a

1487
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:22,240
vehicle that allows me to keep talking

1488
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:24,000
to the people i want to talk about it's

1489
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,880
just i'm just on this journey

1490
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:28,720
yeah indeed i can relate to that as a

1491
00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:31,200
poor customer myself i mean it's pretty

1492
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:33,119
close to my own motives that plus three

1493
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:33,920
books of course

1494
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:35,680
[Laughter]

1495
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:38,160
yeah so so you pretty we clearly said it

1496
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:40,240
there by the way that anniversary show

1497
00:56:45,510 --> 00:56:42,559
200. um

1498
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,520
there was this uh friend of yours who

1499
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:47,680
who lured you into that right tim dilly

1500
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:50,079
yes right right and i really recommend

1501
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,200
that for for people uh although

1502
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:55,280
most of it you're gonna hear today

1503
00:56:59,190 --> 00:56:57,040
uh but it was it's very really

1504
00:57:02,470 --> 00:56:59,200
clarifying very interesting to get a

1505
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:02,480
deep well a peek behind the curtain

1506
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:03,680
of the show

1507
00:57:08,789 --> 00:57:06,720
but here we have it i think uh one of

1508
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:08,799
the very clear

1509
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,040
things that comes off here is you know

1510
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,200
the sincerity you went into the matter

1511
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:15,920
with and with your eyes on the balls

1512
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,319
today people start podcasts because they

1513
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:19,920
want to make money or they want to make

1514
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,079
a name for themselves

1515
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:24,559
or whatever right or propagandise for

1516
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:27,440
something so it's pretty rare the way

1517
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:28,160
you

1518
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:30,880
incepted it and i'm so early i can't get

1519
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:33,839
over how early out you were yeah that

1520
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,040
alone is okudos yeah i don't know yeah

1521
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:40,079
okay so let's also play a clip here

1522
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:41,440
about

1523
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:47,119
in in some ways at least when it comes

1524
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:48,319
to production

1525
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:51,440
i have some views on this um but

1526
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:54,559
let's see what you say about it

1527
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:57,440
so there are a lot of business

1528
00:58:03,270 --> 00:57:59,920
rules or lessons that i've learned that

1529
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:03,280
i think inform my decisions and skeptico

1530
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:06,319
and one of those is that this idea that

1531
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:08,079
do what you love and the money will

1532
00:58:14,230 --> 00:58:11,839
follow is really a load of crap

1533
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:14,240
i don't think that's true and i think

1534
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:16,960
the way that applies to podcasting is if

1535
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:20,319
i wanted to apply my time and my mental

1536
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:23,680
resources towards increasing capital

1537
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:26,240
i wouldn't do it by five casting not to

1538
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,760
say that some people haven't found a way

1539
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,000
to monetize it and stuff like that but i

1540
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,160
i don't that's not one that's not my

1541
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:34,880
goal and two i don't think it's a very

1542
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,799
good way to make money but it's not my

1543
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:38,559
goal it's it's not what this thing's

1544
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:40,400
about

1545
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:43,599
so so that you said already uh then and

1546
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:46,480
we're gonna fast forward to a much more

1547
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:47,599
recent

1548
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:49,119
i think it's a mesh of different

1549
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:51,599
comments but this is a more recent

1550
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:54,160
and i want to play that back to back

1551
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:56,640
with that 200 show comment because

1552
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,200
people if they pay attention

1553
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:01,359
they'll see that you are really

1554
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:04,559
reiterating the idealism that it's all

1555
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:08,000
about seeking more ways to get the word

1556
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:09,119
out

1557
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:10,160
to

1558
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,240
i mean it's all about the

1559
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:13,839
subject the matter

1560
00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:16,400
not about you not about money and this

1561
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,559
is and when people make books for

1562
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:20,400
example often you hear this ah you

1563
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,920
suggest making a book to make money of

1564
00:59:25,349 --> 00:59:23,760
course nobody ever made money from books

1565
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:25,359
in modern times but

1566
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:28,559
but even here you'll see it's all about

1567
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:30,559
the focus

1568
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:33,599
my book is done why science is wrong

1569
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:36,400
about almost everything is done it's out

1570
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:39,040
it's printed it's here on my desk

1571
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:41,119
and with the announcement of the book i

1572
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:44,480
of course want to thank all of you for

1573
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:46,640
the help and support that you've given

1574
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,200
me with the skeptical project that's led

1575
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:51,760
to this book and also for many of the

1576
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:54,559
ideas that have really been formulated

1577
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,280
through my interaction with you

1578
01:00:02,309 --> 00:59:59,200
i have to tell you one of the things i'm

1579
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:02,319
most excited about with the book is

1580
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:05,280
using it as a vehicle to connect with

1581
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:08,000
more people it's always exciting to be

1582
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:09,440
able to share

1583
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,000
what i've learned to share some of this

1584
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,359
new science and i've already begun to do

1585
01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:17,200
that i've completed a couple of

1586
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:18,799
interviews on the book and they've been

1587
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:20,720
great and it's so fun to talk to people

1588
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:22,319
who've never heard about some of this

1589
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:24,240
stuff before and expose it to them for

1590
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:25,680
the first time just like i said a minute

1591
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:27,839
ago that's really working out i have

1592
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:30,480
several more scheduled and i wanted to

1593
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:32,960
reach out to all of you if you know of

1594
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:35,280
other outlets where

1595
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:37,920
i can go on and talk about this book and

1596
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:40,319
get these ideas out there please let me

1597
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,920
know particularly keen to talk to groups

1598
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:46,319
that might not be initially super

1599
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:47,599
receptive

1600
01:00:52,069 --> 01:00:50,400
but might be able to find some points of

1601
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:52,079
synergy where we could kind of shoehorn

1602
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:54,160
our way in there i really would like to

1603
01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:55,920
talk to skeptics about the book i'd love

1604
01:01:02,950 --> 01:00:59,200
to talk to mainstream science types love

1605
01:01:05,270 --> 01:01:02,960
to talk to mainstream media types and

1606
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:05,280
i'd love to talk to atheists of course

1607
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:07,599
christians and all sorts of folks if you

1608
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:09,760
have any ideas along those lines or if

1609
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:11,920
you're a blogger a podcaster or have

1610
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:13,599
those kind of connections let me know

1611
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:15,520
that's just going to be exciting to me

1612
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:17,520
and it's going to be fun to get that out

1613
01:01:23,910 --> 01:01:18,480
there

1614
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:23,920
through that process i want to let you

1615
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:26,240
know that i've set up a website to more

1616
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:29,119
or less chronicle that journey of the

1617
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:31,520
rollout of the book and talking to these

1618
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:34,160
different groups join me in this new

1619
01:01:37,349 --> 01:01:35,440
slightly different path that i'm

1620
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,359
embarking on so as you probably know

1621
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:39,200
from listening to this podcast i really

1622
01:01:43,829 --> 01:01:42,079
enjoy these interviews i gain so much by

1623
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:43,839
talking to all these really interesting

1624
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:45,839
people and then i really enjoy bringing

1625
01:01:49,829 --> 01:01:47,760
it to you and getting your feedback and

1626
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:49,839
growing in that way one of the things i

1627
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:52,240
regret is that i wish i could do more i

1628
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:54,480
do one every two weeks sometimes i sneak

1629
01:01:57,589 --> 01:01:56,160
another one in there and you'll always

1630
01:01:59,349 --> 01:01:57,599
hear me lamenting about wow you know i

1631
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,359
wish i could get more out but it just

1632
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,280
gets to be a lot less fun to try and

1633
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:03,440
crank out one a week i don't know how

1634
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,200
some people do it i mean between the

1635
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:07,520
lining up guests booking guests

1636
01:02:12,549 --> 01:02:09,920
interviewing editing transcribing doing

1637
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:12,559
all that it becomes like a job and i

1638
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:14,720
don't want to have to go to be a job but

1639
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:18,000
i do want to bring more content

1640
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,319
out i think there's a lot of information

1641
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:22,880
in these topics that we cover that i'd

1642
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:24,000
like to see

1643
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:26,079
shared more and brought into the

1644
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:28,400
dialogue about what's going on with

1645
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:31,520
consciousness spirituality skepticism

1646
01:02:35,270 --> 01:02:33,359
and science around these topics that we

1647
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:35,280
talk about so that's why i've kind of

1648
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:39,200
redesigned the website to make it more

1649
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:42,319
one shareable but also more open to

1650
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:45,440
other kinds of information and content

1651
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:48,480
beyond just these interviews that i do

1652
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:49,839
i'd like

1653
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:50,720
you

1654
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:52,319
to help me

1655
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,559
find more content and help me publish

1656
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:56,640
more content there's some really really

1657
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:58,000
bright skeptical people out there

1658
01:03:02,630 --> 01:02:59,680
there's some really good writers a lot

1659
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:02,640
better writers than i am so let's kind

1660
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:04,960
of combine forces let's find a way for

1661
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:08,079
you to help me bring more content

1662
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,480
through the skeptical website to people

1663
01:03:14,549 --> 01:03:12,720
who are interested in this content again

1664
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:14,559
as before there's no advertising on the

1665
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:17,039
site there's no money making possibility

1666
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,119
for this site it's just outflow of money

1667
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,359
from me for the server and all the rest

1668
01:03:25,670 --> 01:03:23,119
that stuff which is fine it's not a huge

1669
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:25,680
expense and the real goal is just to get

1670
01:03:32,789 --> 01:03:28,559
this information out there and to

1671
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:32,799
further this dialogue about these topics

1672
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,319
okay so look man this is crucial because

1673
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:38,960
i'm not sure you are aware of it from

1674
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:41,039
your own position because it's always

1675
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:43,920
easier to see clearly other outside and

1676
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:45,200
yourself

1677
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:46,400
but

1678
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:49,520
the fact that skeptical is completely

1679
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:51,680
non-commercial

1680
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:52,880
you just like you said you're just

1681
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:54,640
spending money on it

1682
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:56,480
you want to avoid it becoming a job i

1683
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,599
can relate to that in fact twice i've

1684
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:01,119
seriously considered stopping

1685
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:03,520
broadcasting i understand

1686
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:05,920
so i want you to say something about how

1687
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:08,799
you avoided i mean how can you go for 15

1688
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,400
years and

1689
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,720
not getting tired of it

1690
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:14,880
um i mean i suspect i know the answer

1691
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:16,960
but you'll get to answer that but i

1692
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:18,559
would just want to say that the fact

1693
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:19,920
that you

1694
01:04:25,109 --> 01:04:22,720
have never had any focus on money

1695
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:25,119
not just from the lack of greed position

1696
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:26,799
i mean you didn't have to right i mean

1697
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:28,720
most people have to

1698
01:04:32,470 --> 01:04:30,799
but i think that has brought a

1699
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:32,480
particular

1700
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:35,119
um how you say it in english not a

1701
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:42,309
a quality an honesty that is very hard

1702
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,280
at least even people who are relying on

1703
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,520
let alone advertisement but just like me

1704
01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:50,000
who get listeners paying me

1705
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,559
okay i'm not having the big corporation

1706
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:54,400
breathing down my neck but i have some

1707
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:57,200
kind of populism demand that i have to

1708
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,079
cater to you don't have to still you're

1709
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:02,480
trying to engage with people all the

1710
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:04,240
time and you are and we're gonna talk

1711
01:05:08,549 --> 01:05:05,520
more about that

1712
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,559
but i think it's so important for the

1713
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:10,400
for the integrity i think is the world

1714
01:05:14,789 --> 01:05:12,799
i'm looking for the integrity of this

1715
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,799
skeptical journey comment

1716
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:16,319
yeah i mean i don't want to come out too

1717
01:05:19,910 --> 01:05:17,680
far because i could go in a million

1718
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:19,920
million different directions

1719
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:22,000
you know i really used to to kind of

1720
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:23,760
again jump three steps ahead and then we

1721
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:26,079
can maybe fill it in sure i always

1722
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:27,920
referenced this but i remember hearing

1723
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:30,799
shirley mclean many years ago say

1724
01:05:35,829 --> 01:05:33,280
we're all entertainers and she's talking

1725
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:35,839
and she is known for kind of being at

1726
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:38,160
the forefront of presenting some very

1727
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:41,119
cutting edge information about uh

1728
01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:43,599
spirit traveling and

1729
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:45,440
all sorts of different kind of stuff

1730
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:47,839
which is very serious stuff and very

1731
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:49,839
in keeping with extended consciousness

1732
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:51,839
stuff and she's really pushed on that

1733
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,280
and she says look we're all entertaining

1734
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:55,200
each other which seems to diminish her

1735
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:57,520
message and then i was very resistant to

1736
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:59,839
that i'm like no damn it i'm not about

1737
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:02,160
entertainment i'm about truth-seeking

1738
01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:04,000
and sharing that truth with other people

1739
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,000
who are truth-seeking and

1740
01:06:10,069 --> 01:06:08,240
as time has gone on i've come to

1741
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:10,079
understand the other part of it too

1742
01:06:16,150 --> 01:06:12,640
which is that

1743
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:16,160
on a very uh spiritual level

1744
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:18,640
we're all here to entertain each other

1745
01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:21,119
we're all here to be that light you know

1746
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:23,760
to have that light that is always

1747
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:26,640
there to come through us and to reach

1748
01:06:31,270 --> 01:06:29,200
other people and the only way to do that

1749
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:31,280
is to tell the truth you can't do that

1750
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:32,720
if you're

1751
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,039
thing is you do have to along the way

1752
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:39,039
entertaining people is not a bad thing

1753
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:40,880
so i'm not against that i'm just not

1754
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,520
very good at that i find myself

1755
01:06:46,870 --> 01:06:45,280
much more comfortable with just being

1756
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:46,880
direct and

1757
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:48,960
i think i've turned off a ton i know

1758
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,119
i've turned off a ton of people

1759
01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:53,599
uh over the years and and but that's got

1760
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:55,839
to be that's got to be okay with regard

1761
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:57,760
to quitting i've thought about it many

1762
01:07:01,510 --> 01:07:00,480
times i think about it all the time

1763
01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:01,520
it's like

1764
01:07:06,390 --> 01:07:02,799
all the time

1765
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:06,400
an exaggeration but i think that's part

1766
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,920
of the yoga process that's part of the

1767
01:07:13,829 --> 01:07:10,079
ice bath process you know it's like the

1768
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:13,839
reason i get in that 35 degree water

1769
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:15,920
multiple times a week or in the ocean

1770
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:17,760
when it's cold enough multiple times a

1771
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:20,880
week is because i don't want to do it

1772
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,400
it's like a guy wrote the book that

1773
01:07:26,309 --> 01:07:24,319
marine he said and you know it's an

1774
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:26,319
obnoxious thing to say but he's jogging

1775
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:28,160
in the rain and some woman rolls down

1776
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:29,440
her window and says

1777
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,680
why are you doing this some fat woman

1778
01:07:35,589 --> 01:07:32,799
drinking a

1779
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:35,599
coke and eating french fries says why

1780
01:07:41,589 --> 01:07:38,240
are you doing that honey and he says i'm

1781
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:41,599
doing it because you're [\h__\h] not

1782
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:44,160
and that's obnoxious and i don't want to

1783
01:07:51,190 --> 01:07:47,839
be obnoxious but i understand the vibe

1784
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,200
i'm doing it because i know this is what

1785
01:07:55,349 --> 01:07:53,599
my soul needs

1786
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,359
maybe your soul needs something

1787
01:08:00,230 --> 01:07:57,920
different but my soul needs the truth

1788
01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,240
and needs for me to be actively engaged

1789
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:02,240
in seeking the truth so

1790
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:03,680
you know that's

1791
01:08:08,309 --> 01:08:05,280
that's my kind of thing i would use the

1792
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:08,319
word infotainment in in both your in my

1793
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,599
my case rather than entertainment but

1794
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:13,920
yeah because inadvertently it gets

1795
01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:16,640
entertaining now and then especially

1796
01:08:21,030 --> 01:08:18,159
when we're going to get back to that the

1797
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:21,040
more um confrontational shows but no

1798
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:22,560
this is interesting because yeah it's

1799
01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:24,960
it's it's a part of your yogi work isn't

1800
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:28,640
it part of that journey yeah yeah

1801
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:30,880
it's the non-dual it's the non-dual

1802
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:33,359
thing you know why are any of us doing

1803
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:36,239
anything you know yeah so what are so

1804
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:37,359
then that

1805
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,759
this is meaningful i mean this is me you

1806
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:41,839
don't need attention you don't need the

1807
01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:43,600
money you don't even need the

1808
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,040
connections

1809
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:47,440
but it's what you get out of doing the

1810
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:50,080
show it's what everybody pretends is

1811
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:52,960
their driving force but in your case it

1812
01:08:58,550 --> 01:08:55,920
actually is and it has two results

1813
01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:58,560
like you say you will put off lots of

1814
01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,799
people one of the reasons

1815
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:02,880
just one there's other more evident

1816
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,480
reasons too but one of the reasons is

1817
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:06,400
people aren't that interested in truth

1818
01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:10,560
but the other thing is that it will also

1819
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:12,000
some people

1820
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:14,719
who to use a cliche vibrates at that

1821
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,319
frequency will recognize this

1822
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:20,159
because you're seeking the truth but to

1823
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:22,640
seek the truth you have to be honest you

1824
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:25,279
have to live in truth as much as we can

1825
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:27,759
and that comes through that you are a

1826
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:30,400
sincere seeker and i think that's key

1827
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,319
it's the it's a it's the same thing that

1828
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:34,400
puts some people off

1829
01:09:37,110 --> 01:09:35,279
that

1830
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:37,120
makes others

1831
01:09:41,349 --> 01:09:39,520
recognize like this is the real thing

1832
01:09:44,229 --> 01:09:41,359
this is integrity you understand what i

1833
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:44,239
mean i i do and that's super nice and

1834
01:09:48,630 --> 01:09:46,159
complementary but the other part is but

1835
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:48,640
it's true well it it's true but there's

1836
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:50,560
another part of it too and that that's

1837
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:53,040
that i'm wrong a lot and i have been

1838
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,840
wrong a lot and people were probably

1839
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:57,120
rightfully

1840
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:58,000
uh

1841
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:01,360
kind of put off by me because

1842
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:03,920
they were right and i was wrong so you

1843
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,320
got to keep you got to keep it real yeah

1844
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,640
that's not the most no no no that's not

1845
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,800
the usual reason people are put off by

1846
01:10:14,229 --> 01:10:12,480
you that they were right and you were

1847
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:14,239
wrong and you were arrogant about it and

1848
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:15,520
later

1849
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:17,360
i mean one thing is that you actually

1850
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,199
admit when you're wrong people can't

1851
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:20,880
even handle doing that

1852
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:23,360
well so you're honest about evolving

1853
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:24,640
right

1854
01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:27,600
you know i mean i i do i do kind of i

1855
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:28,719
agree with you because i don't want to

1856
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:31,120
kind of be fronting you know like i'm

1857
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:33,920
because i'll tell you what i i genuinely

1858
01:10:40,310 --> 01:10:34,719
like

1859
01:10:42,470 --> 01:10:40,320
you know what

1860
01:10:44,950 --> 01:10:42,480
no one likes to be wrong i don't like to

1861
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:44,960
be wrong but i kind of like to be wrong

1862
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:46,800
i kind of like to be i kind of like when

1863
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:49,600
somebody really shows me where i'm off

1864
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:52,239
course because then it allows me to get

1865
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:54,880
on course you know i was just editing an

1866
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:57,360
interview today that i'm doing with a

1867
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:59,120
guy and it was on the whole agenda 21

1868
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:01,360
2030 great reset

1869
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:02,880
and i got to say going into it i was a

1870
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,360
little bit yada yada you know come on

1871
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,360
and at the end of it i was like no this

1872
01:11:11,430 --> 01:11:09,120
guy's really done the work and he's

1873
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,440
there in missoula montana and there are

1874
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:12,800
the laws and they're on the books and

1875
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:13,679
i'm like

1876
01:11:20,550 --> 01:11:17,600
boom you know course correction for me

1877
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:20,560
i love that i i i might look a little

1878
01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:23,040
bit silly in that you know i didn't kind

1879
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:25,840
of know it going in but gosh what a what

1880
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,840
a gift to know stuff that you didn't

1881
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:28,560
know

1882
01:11:33,830 --> 01:11:30,960
yeah that's because again it goes back

1883
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:33,840
to this is why it was so important uh i

1884
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:35,600
think to play those clips because it

1885
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:37,199
goes back to the fact that there's no

1886
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:38,239
ego

1887
01:11:43,030 --> 01:11:40,640
in the source of your

1888
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:43,040
work or of in your quest i'm not saying

1889
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:44,800
you don't have any ego of course you do

1890
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,120
and and that ego probably takes some

1891
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:49,199
people off i think that's better to say

1892
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:51,040
and the dead honestly because you're not

1893
01:11:55,510 --> 01:11:53,120
supposed to especially now in this

1894
01:11:57,669 --> 01:11:55,520
castle culture taboo nobody can handle

1895
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,679
anything let alone an honest

1896
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,120
conversation

1897
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,360
where where the eyes are at the ball and

1898
01:12:06,149 --> 01:12:03,840
not at the player yes so you lose out

1899
01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:06,159
just for the culture but

1900
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:09,360
that's what i mean it's when you are

1901
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:12,400
seeking truth of course you want to

1902
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:14,000
learn something new because we don't

1903
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,000
know everybody doesn't know everything

1904
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:18,159
so i can i exactly know what you mean

1905
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,840
when you discover that but the reason

1906
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:21,600
most people don't like to be wrong is

1907
01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:23,520
because they invested their ego in

1908
01:12:26,550 --> 01:12:24,560
something

1909
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:26,560
there was a tribal thing

1910
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:28,880
and now they're exposed and then they

1911
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:31,520
feel embarrassed as they should

1912
01:12:36,070 --> 01:12:34,320
because the ego should never get in in

1913
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:36,080
the first place but we can go off on

1914
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:38,400
this tangent forever but but it's i

1915
01:12:42,149 --> 01:12:39,840
think it's just important that people

1916
01:12:45,189 --> 01:12:42,159
notice it there by the way you mentioned

1917
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:45,199
your book i suppose we should also bring

1918
01:12:51,590 --> 01:12:47,520
light to the fact that you have

1919
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:51,600
you have made two books per today

1920
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,960
as a result of the skeptical journey yes

1921
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:56,400
why science is wrong about almost

1922
01:13:02,870 --> 01:12:59,440
everything and why evil matters

1923
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:02,880
how science and religion fumbled

1924
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:06,320
a big one yeah or that big one but both

1925
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:08,719
these books are the interesting thing

1926
01:13:12,750 --> 01:13:10,480
the format of the books it's they are

1927
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:12,760
actually like a

1928
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,400
literary version of your show you are

1929
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:18,320
putting in stuff from the show there and

1930
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:20,080
going through but they also reflect

1931
01:13:23,189 --> 01:13:21,600
different periods and we're going to get

1932
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:23,199
back to that too it's going to be a lot

1933
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:25,120
of we're going to get back to today

1934
01:13:29,030 --> 01:13:26,320
folks

1935
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:29,040
yeah but they both reflect different

1936
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,640
periods of

1937
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:32,800
your show like

1938
01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:33,760
uh

1939
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:36,400
and i'm gonna expose in detail because

1940
01:13:41,590 --> 01:13:38,560
i've analyzed it so i know now you have

1941
01:13:42,550 --> 01:13:41,600
four eras of skeptical we still have era

1942
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:42,560
one

1943
01:13:46,149 --> 01:13:44,159
so it's a bit early to bet but let's

1944
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:46,159
just take it now since the books are up

1945
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:48,320
and the evil book

1946
01:13:50,470 --> 01:13:49,199
is

1947
01:13:52,950 --> 01:13:50,480
from

1948
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:52,960
yeah it's between era 3 and 4 as i've

1949
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:55,679
analyzed it but i want to ask you do you

1950
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:58,080
think there will be a new book like that

1951
01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:00,400
in the future and if so can you venture

1952
01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:02,159
a guest at the topic

1953
01:14:07,470 --> 01:14:04,000
or is that too early

1954
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:07,480
no i'd really like to do a book on

1955
01:14:12,070 --> 01:14:10,320
christianity and religion and i think

1956
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:12,080
it's just

1957
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:13,679
i just discovered a couple of really

1958
01:14:16,709 --> 01:14:14,960
interesting things and i've shared them

1959
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:16,719
all on the show as many times as i can i

1960
01:14:20,870 --> 01:14:18,560
think people get tired of it but i think

1961
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:20,880
it's fundamental fundamental to what i

1962
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:22,640
keep bumping into

1963
01:14:27,430 --> 01:14:25,600
damn man you're gonna i mean that's

1964
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:27,440
opening account of roms if you're gonna

1965
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:28,560
do that

1966
01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:31,440
don't be biased uh because you've had a

1967
01:14:34,709 --> 01:14:33,760
a particular angle

1968
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,719
uh

1969
01:14:38,149 --> 01:14:36,000
i don't know if it's deliberate because

1970
01:14:40,070 --> 01:14:38,159
from the guests you have like one angle

1971
01:14:41,030 --> 01:14:40,080
is jesus never existed i'm on the other

1972
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:41,040
camp

1973
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:43,360
not only did he exist

1974
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:46,239
but the historical jesus was a super

1975
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:48,080
interesting guy you know what get the

1976
01:14:51,830 --> 01:14:49,280
book

1977
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:51,840
it's probably expensive and rare but but

1978
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:53,440
you can handle that you get the book

1979
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:56,480
called a search for the historical jesus

1980
01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,480
it's not the only one i would recommend

1981
01:15:02,229 --> 01:15:00,640
that gives you another angle into it but

1982
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:02,239
it's a good one

1983
01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:05,199
uses a lot of rare so you mentioned that

1984
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,800
you mentioned that last time when we

1985
01:15:11,669 --> 01:15:09,360
were talking and i i glanced at it and

1986
01:15:13,030 --> 01:15:11,679
yeah i think i've i've covered a lot of

1987
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:13,040
that material i'm i'm happy to go

1988
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:14,640
through it again and to dive into it

1989
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:16,800
again i think when we get to that part

1990
01:15:21,990 --> 01:15:18,719
of the this conversation

1991
01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:22,000
to me the missing piece there that just

1992
01:15:26,709 --> 01:15:24,080
derails everything and it almost

1993
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:26,719
derailed our conversation right here is

1994
01:15:29,830 --> 01:15:27,600
that

1995
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:29,840
when you approach it like i just did and

1996
01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:31,440
i i just forget sometimes because you

1997
01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:33,679
can't give people a 10-minute speech but

1998
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:36,480
i'm all about christ consciousness i'm

1999
01:15:40,950 --> 01:15:39,040
all about people having a personal when

2000
01:15:42,310 --> 01:15:40,960
people talk about christians talk about

2001
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:42,320
i have a personal relationship with

2002
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,480
jesus i go right on to that that makes

2003
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,480
total sense to me as a matter of fact

2004
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:48,880
all the 500 shows i've done suggest that

2005
01:15:53,830 --> 01:15:51,760
there is an extended consciousness realm

2006
01:15:56,709 --> 01:15:53,840
in in that extended consciousness realm

2007
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:56,719
you can and many people report have a

2008
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:58,800
relationship with jesus that seems to be

2009
01:16:01,990 --> 01:16:00,800
the data i don't know what that means i

2010
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:02,000
really don't i don't know what that

2011
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:03,600
means but that's the data if i'm going

2012
01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:06,480
to be fair so when i say about that i'm

2013
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:08,080
not really not talking

2014
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:10,560
i i i'm really not talking the way that

2015
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:13,199
most people get offended by their faith

2016
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:15,520
what i'm talking about is [\h__\h]

2017
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:19,199
josephus is a psyop and if we can't if

2018
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:20,719
we can't it's like so many of these

2019
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:23,600
things if we crack them then the whole

2020
01:16:28,630 --> 01:16:26,159
thing looks different yeah if there is

2021
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:28,640
such a thing as social engineering and

2022
01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:31,199
if religion has been for the longest

2023
01:16:35,669 --> 01:16:32,400
time

2024
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:35,679
the centerpiece the prize the fulcrum

2025
01:16:41,189 --> 01:16:38,880
point for that then we better freaking

2026
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:41,199
focus on that until we really have a

2027
01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:43,679
handle on it the same thing with you

2028
01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:44,960
know back when we're talking about the

2029
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:46,560
skeptics and that

2030
01:16:54,070 --> 01:16:50,800
if the goal really was to derail

2031
01:16:55,990 --> 01:16:54,080
that understanding that we are more

2032
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:56,000
than biological robots in a meaningless

2033
01:16:59,750 --> 01:16:58,719
universe if that really was the goal

2034
01:17:04,310 --> 01:16:59,760
and if

2035
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:04,320
tremendous influence unbelievable

2036
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:06,239
tremendous influence and if he really

2037
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,800
was a ca cutout which is how it looks

2038
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:10,400
when you really put all the pieces back

2039
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:11,360
together

2040
01:17:15,590 --> 01:17:13,600
then that looks totally different now

2041
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:15,600
the whole thing looks totally different

2042
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:18,159
and i love rupert sheldrick and he's an

2043
01:17:21,990 --> 01:17:20,560
awesome person but he's got to get to

2044
01:17:24,550 --> 01:17:22,000
that point too and he's got to either

2045
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:24,560
say well that's [\h__\h] you know or

2046
01:17:29,110 --> 01:17:26,640
he's got to say wow that has some that

2047
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:29,120
has some real possibility that does make

2048
01:17:33,189 --> 01:17:31,440
me think differently about what i live

2049
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:33,199
through it's like

2050
01:17:35,669 --> 01:17:34,640
you and i have had this conversation

2051
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:35,679
again to

2052
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:36,960
i'm busting up your thing here and

2053
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:38,719
jumping ahead but the conversation you

2054
01:17:43,030 --> 01:17:40,960
and i had were about gloria steinem and

2055
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:43,040
you know gloria steinem comes she's the

2056
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:44,880
woman's movement she's responsible for

2057
01:17:49,110 --> 01:17:46,880
the women's movement key figure right

2058
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:49,120
well she's cia but then what a lot of

2059
01:17:53,590 --> 01:17:51,760
people don't realize it's not like

2060
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:53,600
she was running the women's movement and

2061
01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:56,800
then the cia approached her no no no no

2062
01:18:01,350 --> 01:17:59,440
she was cia and they said why don't you

2063
01:18:04,390 --> 01:18:01,360
go do the woman's movement

2064
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:04,400
so can you really look at the women's

2065
01:18:06,630 --> 01:18:05,600
movement

2066
01:18:09,350 --> 01:18:06,640
and not

2067
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:09,360
factor that in you have to so the same

2068
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:10,480
thing that's what i'm saying about

2069
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:12,400
christianity if you don't

2070
01:18:17,910 --> 01:18:16,080
lead with the potential that that is

2071
01:18:19,830 --> 01:18:17,920
an example of social engineering that is

2072
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:19,840
an example of a sayab that is an example

2073
01:18:25,270 --> 01:18:22,400
of a way to control all religions are

2074
01:18:27,430 --> 01:18:25,280
man all religions all religions are

2075
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:27,440
because it's a why wouldn't you it's

2076
01:18:31,669 --> 01:18:30,080
just slam dunk it's a business deal but

2077
01:18:35,350 --> 01:18:31,679
it's funny because now you understand

2078
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:35,360
why my slogan is paradigm expansion

2079
01:18:38,310 --> 01:18:37,120
because you've been describing paradigm

2080
01:18:40,149 --> 01:18:38,320
shifts here

2081
01:18:42,470 --> 01:18:40,159
because that's what happens when you get

2082
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:42,480
that missing piece certainly the whole

2083
01:18:47,510 --> 01:18:45,360
apostle looks different right exactly

2084
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:47,520
but um i would say um about what you

2085
01:18:51,669 --> 01:18:49,600
just said yeah jesus can still be an

2086
01:18:53,990 --> 01:18:51,679
aggregor even if people meet him so

2087
01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:54,000
that's not evidence in my book that's

2088
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:55,760
some people meet him i mean people can

2089
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,920
meet the spaghetti monster it doesn't

2090
01:19:01,669 --> 01:18:59,440
mean it's actually out there well but

2091
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:01,679
there's two ways to spin that and

2092
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:03,920
you know i just re-listened to the

2093
01:19:07,430 --> 01:19:05,840
excellent series of shows you did on

2094
01:19:09,030 --> 01:19:07,440
agrigore's and

2095
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:09,040
i learned a lot because that hasn't

2096
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:11,760
really been a focus of mine but when you

2097
01:19:17,590 --> 01:19:15,199
when you really look at that whole

2098
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:17,600
way of thinking about extended

2099
01:19:22,790 --> 01:19:19,600
consciousness and that we are

2100
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:22,800
co-creators of reality kind of thing

2101
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,320
then i think it's

2102
01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:26,320
and you look at the the flexibility that

2103
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,600
there must be

2104
01:19:32,550 --> 01:19:29,840
in space time you know and again back to

2105
01:19:33,910 --> 01:19:32,560
the core thing of that's what

2106
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:33,920
that's one of the implications rupert

2107
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:36,000
childrex work that's certainly a direct

2108
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:37,920
implication of dean raiden's work

2109
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:40,640
they're proving it experimentally six

2110
01:19:44,310 --> 01:19:41,520
sigma

2111
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:44,320
results dean rayden that no dog time

2112
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:46,880
space is not what you think so as soon

2113
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:49,040
as you do that then the whole that also

2114
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:51,280
throws a lot of gum in the whole

2115
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:54,800
historical jesus 2000 years ago this

2116
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:57,360
happened then this happened and do you

2117
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,560
know this guy

2118
01:20:02,070 --> 01:20:00,239
you know i just have to loosen up on a

2119
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:02,080
lot of that stuff

2120
01:20:05,830 --> 01:20:04,080
okay man we have to move on i have to be

2121
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:05,840
strict with the clock here uh we have

2122
01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:07,840
other topics to recover

2123
01:20:12,149 --> 01:20:08,639
but

2124
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:12,159
here's an important one we can um

2125
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:14,400
mention and this clip is on the

2126
01:20:21,430 --> 01:20:18,880
community and skeptical forum the forum

2127
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,440
was actually started by a skeptical

2128
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:23,440
listener and he just these guys stepped

2129
01:20:26,709 --> 01:20:24,960
forward and said hey let me run a forum

2130
01:20:28,550 --> 01:20:26,719
for a skeptico and i was like great

2131
01:20:30,070 --> 01:20:28,560
which is you know one of the things that

2132
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:30,080
has always been

2133
01:20:35,430 --> 01:20:32,719
in the back of my mind about skeptico is

2134
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:35,440
this idea of a community project not

2135
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:37,360
just me but people are interested in

2136
01:20:42,709 --> 01:20:40,080
these topics often don't have a lot of

2137
01:20:44,629 --> 01:20:42,719
other outlets i love to engage with

2138
01:20:47,750 --> 01:20:44,639
those people and get them involved in

2139
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:47,760
the the project that is skeptico so at

2140
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:49,199
the same time i've never been involved

2141
01:20:52,470 --> 01:20:50,719
in a forum before i was involved in

2142
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:52,480
skeptica so i don't really know i've had

2143
01:20:56,629 --> 01:20:53,760
to learn

2144
01:20:58,950 --> 01:20:56,639
myself what that interaction is like and

2145
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:58,960
and really how you relate to people and

2146
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:01,440
how all that evolves but for me it's

2147
01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:03,360
been a tremendous

2148
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:06,480
experience and i've learned so much from

2149
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:08,880
people who've engaged with me in the

2150
01:21:12,790 --> 01:21:10,560
forum and either have ideas or you get

2151
01:21:15,189 --> 01:21:12,800
into these long sometimes lengthy back

2152
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:15,199
and forth and i've grown tremendously

2153
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:17,280
from the forum and besides i've gotten a

2154
01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:19,760
lot of ideas for guests from the forum

2155
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:22,480
as well which by the way i value greatly

2156
01:21:26,709 --> 01:21:25,120
and i really appreciate those folks who

2157
01:21:28,629 --> 01:21:26,719
come to the skeptical forum and share

2158
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:28,639
their ideas many folks have told me that

2159
01:21:32,070 --> 01:21:30,560
it's one of the most intelligent

2160
01:21:34,149 --> 01:21:32,080
thoughtful forms that they've

2161
01:21:35,910 --> 01:21:34,159
encountered on the web i tend to agree

2162
01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:35,920
i've gained so much out of it if you

2163
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:37,840
haven't i hope you'll take this new

2164
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:42,000
opportunity to check it out

2165
01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:44,000
man and hallelujah i'm so impressed by

2166
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:46,159
that forum even though i one of the

2167
01:21:49,510 --> 01:21:47,760
future i mean i've been i've been

2168
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:49,520
lurking there i've been reading i i

2169
01:21:54,310 --> 01:21:51,360
don't have time to engage in forums i

2170
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:54,320
did manage to be sucked in

2171
01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:55,360
some

2172
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:56,719
shield for the

2173
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:59,360
insurance industry i had had a back and

2174
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:01,840
forth with him but in general i'd say

2175
01:22:04,709 --> 01:22:03,440
the skeptical forum is much more

2176
01:22:06,870 --> 01:22:04,719
important

2177
01:22:07,750 --> 01:22:06,880
to your project than mine i have a forum

2178
01:22:10,629 --> 01:22:07,760
i mean

2179
01:22:12,790 --> 01:22:10,639
my show is called forum but if you put

2180
01:22:15,910 --> 01:22:12,800
up my forum and your forum next to each

2181
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:15,920
other mine looks like an orphanage

2182
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:18,800
whereas whereas yours is like a

2183
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:22,239
super effective university we both have

2184
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:23,920
managed to get intelligent people on

2185
01:22:28,390 --> 01:22:26,480
board i say that right uh but it's still

2186
01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:28,400
a feat that

2187
01:22:32,950 --> 01:22:31,040
and and if your forum is informing i

2188
01:22:36,229 --> 01:22:32,960
think your show at least historically it

2189
01:22:39,189 --> 01:22:36,239
is much more than my forum is mine a

2190
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:39,199
comment to the forum and the community

2191
01:22:43,350 --> 01:22:41,360
it's the forum just like i just said

2192
01:22:45,030 --> 01:22:43,360
there i kind of repeat all that it it

2193
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:45,040
kind of i would say the one of the

2194
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:47,520
frustrations i have for me is it kind of

2195
01:22:53,350 --> 01:22:51,040
you know wanes and rises and people come

2196
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:53,360
and leave and i have people i've met

2197
01:22:57,910 --> 01:22:54,960
that i have these deep relationships

2198
01:23:00,229 --> 01:22:57,920
with and even relationships with outside

2199
01:23:02,390 --> 01:23:00,239
of the forum eventually it grows into

2200
01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:02,400
that and then they go away you know and

2201
01:23:06,390 --> 01:23:04,159
that's totally fine i get that you

2202
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:06,400
should be able to just go away it's no

2203
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:08,400
longer useful to you or you're thinking

2204
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:10,719
of something else but i'm always a

2205
01:23:14,310 --> 01:23:12,719
little bit surprised and a little bit

2206
01:23:16,550 --> 01:23:14,320
you know like hey man how come you're

2207
01:23:18,629 --> 01:23:16,560
not i'll go you're not coming you had so

2208
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:18,639
many good ideas and the other thing is

2209
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:20,400
there's different styles that you have

2210
01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:22,639
to adjust to on the forum what i like to

2211
01:23:29,110 --> 01:23:26,800
do is share information hey i saw this

2212
01:23:30,629 --> 01:23:29,120
link what do you think of this i saw

2213
01:23:32,629 --> 01:23:30,639
this and a lot of people like to share

2214
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,639
more personal kind of

2215
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:35,040
and i try and kind of i sometimes get

2216
01:23:38,229 --> 01:23:36,639
frustrated with that but that people

2217
01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:38,239
haven't needed an outlet and now you

2218
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:40,080
know with the last couple of years going

2219
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:42,080
on it's like

2220
01:23:46,709 --> 01:23:43,840
but there's a lot of other places also

2221
01:23:50,070 --> 01:23:46,719
that people go and and share stuff so

2222
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:50,080
over time it changes plus plus remember

2223
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:52,080
i mean when did you start the forum yeah

2224
01:23:55,350 --> 01:23:53,600
i mean as soon as the show a lot of

2225
01:23:56,629 --> 01:23:55,360
years ago i mean it's i don't know

2226
01:23:58,709 --> 01:23:56,639
probably

2227
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:58,719
but was it very recent after you started

2228
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:59,600
the show

2229
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:01,360
yeah within a couple years that makes

2230
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:02,560
sense because i don't know if you

2231
01:24:07,030 --> 01:24:05,040
remember this and i can't pinpoint when

2232
01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:07,040
it was i think it was

2233
01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:09,360
maybe in 2012 or something but at some

2234
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:10,480
point

2235
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:12,719
because internet was full of forums

2236
01:24:19,270 --> 01:24:16,000
right then at some point all the forums

2237
01:24:21,430 --> 01:24:19,280
went empty yeah facebook sucked up

2238
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:21,440
everything at the same time right it was

2239
01:24:25,270 --> 01:24:22,719
global

2240
01:24:27,110 --> 01:24:25,280
right except i think france or russia

2241
01:24:29,590 --> 01:24:27,120
some stubborn places where they have

2242
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:29,600
their own kind of internet they had back

2243
01:24:34,310 --> 01:24:31,679
then so you remember the same thing

2244
01:24:36,310 --> 01:24:34,320
right and that hurts so that your forums

2245
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,320
even survived that is is pretty

2246
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:38,560
interesting because people just stopped

2247
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,320
using of course now it's the opposite

2248
01:24:44,629 --> 01:24:42,480
now people are emigrating from facebook

2249
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:44,639
except the geriatrics but

2250
01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:45,920
there was a period you know what's

2251
01:24:48,790 --> 01:24:47,120
interesting you know what's interesting

2252
01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:48,800
just kind of in this little tidbit way

2253
01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:50,320
this historical

2254
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:51,440
phase here

2255
01:24:54,870 --> 01:24:53,199
there are a bunch of people that broke

2256
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:54,880
off of the forum and started their own

2257
01:24:59,430 --> 01:24:57,040
forum because they weren't happy with

2258
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,440
yeah where i was i forget what exactly

2259
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:01,440
the the beef was

2260
01:25:05,910 --> 01:25:03,280
probably skeptics wasn't it

2261
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:05,920
no no no it was um you know there's a

2262
01:25:09,669 --> 01:25:08,000
lot of different ways to be skeptical of

2263
01:25:11,669 --> 01:25:09,679
uh yeah it was really kind of

2264
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:11,679
parapsychology kind of people who didn't

2265
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:13,760
think okay i forget exactly there wasn't

2266
01:25:17,350 --> 01:25:16,239
there wasn't it a listener who to begin

2267
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:17,360
with

2268
01:25:22,390 --> 01:25:20,080
did this it wasn't you yeah stefan so so

2269
01:25:24,709 --> 01:25:22,400
he started it and then eventually a

2270
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:24,719
group kind of broke off and i think they

2271
01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:27,920
didn't like the i think they were still

2272
01:25:33,430 --> 01:25:30,320
engaged in the skeptical

2273
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:33,440
versus parrot they wanted to continue

2274
01:25:36,629 --> 01:25:34,320
the

2275
01:25:39,189 --> 01:25:36,639
you know skeptic of one point

2276
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:39,199
exactly you know that there is there are

2277
01:25:44,790 --> 01:25:41,440
these things called skeptics

2278
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,800
and they have a scientific point of view

2279
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:46,880
and then there's these other people you

2280
01:25:50,870 --> 01:25:48,639
know who have a different point of view

2281
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,880
and it's [\h__\h] it's rubbish skeptics

2282
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:52,639
really don't have

2283
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:55,120
a point of view they have an agenda you

2284
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:56,800
know it's kind of like we're finding and

2285
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:58,320
that's why i say that i said at the very

2286
01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:00,480
beginning to tip the hand the pandemic

2287
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:02,719
brings that into focus right so now you

2288
01:26:06,870 --> 01:26:04,239
look at the pandemic and you go well

2289
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:06,880
that was never science to begin with

2290
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:09,840
and you go oh but then why did they do

2291
01:26:13,990 --> 01:26:11,120
it like that

2292
01:26:16,229 --> 01:26:14,000
oh it was a plan

2293
01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:16,239
well the same is true like so if you go

2294
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:17,520
all the way back

2295
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:19,600
like we're talking about uh richard

2296
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,560
wiseman and rupert sheldrick and dogs

2297
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:24,320
that know

2298
01:26:29,669 --> 01:26:26,480
can i go off on that story a little bit

2299
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,679
no uh wait a minute because because yes

2300
01:26:34,870 --> 01:26:32,159
but not now it's coming okay and i want

2301
01:26:37,830 --> 01:26:34,880
you to to account for that yeah

2302
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:37,840
but um let me just say though that you

2303
01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:40,960
remember my my allegory last time we had

2304
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:44,080
a regular show about the mountaintop

2305
01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:46,000
remind me yeah i've been to the

2306
01:26:52,149 --> 01:26:48,960
mountaintop brother no

2307
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:52,159
you know when when you start by the foot

2308
01:26:55,669 --> 01:26:54,000
of the mountain there's a million people

2309
01:26:57,990 --> 01:26:55,679
running around and flirting with

2310
01:27:01,430 --> 01:26:58,000
different paths right the higher up you

2311
01:27:03,669 --> 01:27:01,440
go the more the path shrinks well

2312
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:03,679
it's easy to start

2313
01:27:08,070 --> 01:27:05,840
by the foot of the mountain and say hey

2314
01:27:10,790 --> 01:27:08,080
folks yeah i'm going on a truth quest

2315
01:27:11,990 --> 01:27:10,800
who will join me everyone yay right so

2316
01:27:13,350 --> 01:27:12,000
in the beginning you're a huge

2317
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:13,360
congregation

2318
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:15,040
but the higher up you come the more

2319
01:27:19,430 --> 01:27:17,760
people will fall off because you so

2320
01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:19,440
determined to get to the mountaintop

2321
01:27:23,189 --> 01:27:21,280
you're not being lured

2322
01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:23,199
from all sorts of distractions on the

2323
01:27:26,550 --> 01:27:25,280
way that most people do they lose their

2324
01:27:28,390 --> 01:27:26,560
head whatever

2325
01:27:29,189 --> 01:27:28,400
so of course you're going to lose folks

2326
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:29,199
but

2327
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:30,560
as you progress you're also going to

2328
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:33,199
meet someone oh what what are you coping

2329
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:34,960
around here for oh well i was looking

2330
01:27:40,070 --> 01:27:37,360
for the path uh up well you made it this

2331
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:40,080
far join me and and and we'll go higher

2332
01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:42,000
so you you pick up people on on this

2333
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:44,880
skeptical journey away that's my

2334
01:27:49,270 --> 01:27:47,280
adjusted metaphor from from that one i

2335
01:27:51,110 --> 01:27:49,280
used in the end of the year show but you

2336
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:51,120
know what we have to move on that is an

2337
01:27:55,430 --> 01:27:53,040
awesome awesome

2338
01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:55,440
allegory yeah okay let's move on because

2339
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:57,280
there's another thing that people are

2340
01:28:02,950 --> 01:28:00,000
not so aware of and that's the

2341
01:28:05,110 --> 01:28:02,960
experiments

2342
01:28:07,030 --> 01:28:05,120
i have another brief update for you if

2343
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:07,040
you recall on the last episode of

2344
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:08,719
skeptico we talked a little bit about

2345
01:28:12,790 --> 01:28:11,120
the global consciousness project and how

2346
01:28:15,189 --> 01:28:12,800
we've gotten involved with that a little

2347
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:15,199
bit one of the other projects that

2348
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:17,120
regular listeners will know that we've

2349
01:28:20,870 --> 01:28:18,960
been involved with for a long time is

2350
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:20,880
some of the research of dr rupert

2351
01:28:24,070 --> 01:28:22,400
sheldon his research has been

2352
01:28:25,830 --> 01:28:24,080
fascinating to me and i've always

2353
01:28:28,149 --> 01:28:25,840
admired his clear thinking his

2354
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:28,159
forthrightness and his willingness to i

2355
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:29,920
guess buck the critics he's certainly

2356
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,159
taken his share of criticism for really

2357
01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:34,719
nothing else than just uh expressing

2358
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:37,120
unconventional ideas and as you know

2359
01:28:41,189 --> 01:28:38,639
that's not the way science is supposed

2360
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:41,199
to work so a couple years ago i got

2361
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:43,920
involved with dr sheldrick and tried to

2362
01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:47,040
help with the dogs that no experiment

2363
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:48,480
now in the process of working on that

2364
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:50,639
experiment i had a chance to correspond

2365
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:52,960
with dr sheldrick many times over the

2366
01:28:57,750 --> 01:28:55,040
last year or two and have found him to

2367
01:29:00,629 --> 01:28:57,760
be a very busy guy but a very open guy

2368
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:00,639
and very willing to support other people

2369
01:29:06,790 --> 01:29:04,080
getting involved in his research and for

2370
01:29:08,790 --> 01:29:06,800
that reason i most recently have kind of

2371
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:08,800
picked up on another project that he's

2372
01:29:13,669 --> 01:29:10,560
been involved with and that's the

2373
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:13,679
telephone telepathy experiment and i'm

2374
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:16,080
in the very beginning stages of trying

2375
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,120
to help dr sheldrick put together a

2376
01:29:23,350 --> 01:29:21,040
website that would automate the process

2377
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,360
of telephone telepathy testing that's a

2378
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:25,679
tongue twister

2379
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:28,080
so you were very good at your timing it

2380
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:32,239
was it was the next topic i had but look

2381
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:34,880
i know you run psi experiment you

2382
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:37,520
mentioned here the global consciousness

2383
01:29:41,430 --> 01:29:39,120
thing and then it's the dog things that

2384
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:41,440
you wanted to mention so because you

2385
01:29:45,430 --> 01:29:43,520
picked up so many listeners who weren't

2386
01:29:47,590 --> 01:29:45,440
with you back then

2387
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:47,600
so i want you to to account for these

2388
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,000
experiments you were flirting with which

2389
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:52,560
is also pretty unique uh you know

2390
01:29:56,310 --> 01:29:54,080
associated with the podcast yeah it's

2391
01:29:58,790 --> 01:29:56,320
funny that freaking out you are

2392
01:30:03,270 --> 01:29:58,800
unbelievable i i had totally forgotten

2393
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:05,669
i was just 15 years man

2394
01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:07,760
yeah yeah but you know so the dogs

2395
01:30:14,149 --> 01:30:11,840
didn't know just to recap for people

2396
01:30:17,030 --> 01:30:14,159
what dr rupert sheldrick

2397
01:30:19,270 --> 01:30:17,040
started getting letters he's a biologist

2398
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:19,280
and he's interested in animals and he

2399
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:21,840
started getting letters he had proposed

2400
01:30:25,030 --> 01:30:23,760
this idea of morphic

2401
01:30:27,990 --> 01:30:25,040
uh

2402
01:30:29,430 --> 01:30:28,000
morphic fields that carry information

2403
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:29,440
and that can

2404
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:31,280
explain a lot of psychic phenomena and

2405
01:30:34,470 --> 01:30:32,719
bill says hey maybe that explains the

2406
01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:34,480
fact that my dog knows when i'm coming

2407
01:30:37,430 --> 01:30:36,000
home and he started getting a lot of

2408
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:37,440
these letters so he decided to

2409
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:40,639
investigate it seriously scientifically

2410
01:30:44,550 --> 01:30:42,480
and he ran an experiment a series of

2411
01:30:46,149 --> 01:30:44,560
experiments it's not a difficult

2412
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:46,159
experiment to do if you're a cambridge

2413
01:30:49,750 --> 01:30:48,560
biologist and you're smart about science

2414
01:30:51,750 --> 01:30:49,760
you know you put a video camera on the

2415
01:30:54,709 --> 01:30:51,760
dog you put a video camera on the owner

2416
01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:54,719
you send the owner out and then you call

2417
01:30:58,790 --> 01:30:56,400
the owner and you say come on home and

2418
01:31:00,390 --> 01:30:58,800
you see if the dog reacts right

2419
01:31:03,110 --> 01:31:00,400
so

2420
01:31:04,870 --> 01:31:03,120
he had done a series of experiments and

2421
01:31:06,390 --> 01:31:04,880
the story i was going to tell before and

2422
01:31:08,310 --> 01:31:06,400
i'll make that one short so i can get to

2423
01:31:10,390 --> 01:31:08,320
the other one about the experiments

2424
01:31:12,310 --> 01:31:10,400
is he had done these experiments and

2425
01:31:15,189 --> 01:31:12,320
published them and then there was this

2426
01:31:16,390 --> 01:31:15,199
quote-unquote skeptic richard wiseman

2427
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,400
who was

2428
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:18,719
kind of like i guess you'd say like a

2429
01:31:24,149 --> 01:31:21,520
neil degrasse tyson of

2430
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,159
england at the time at least the most

2431
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:26,960
public the most out front you know being

2432
01:31:31,110 --> 01:31:29,040
interviewed by all the tv stations and

2433
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:31,120
all that about radio and his

2434
01:31:36,229 --> 01:31:34,719
qualifications was as a dating coach

2435
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:36,239
psychologist

2436
01:31:40,390 --> 01:31:38,159
well his colleague his paul his

2437
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:40,400
qualifications were legit you know but

2438
01:31:44,870 --> 01:31:42,239
anyways he came in and he said that was

2439
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:44,880
his work prior to this

2440
01:31:49,510 --> 01:31:46,960
he came in in in he

2441
01:31:51,430 --> 01:31:49,520
one thing that really got children again

2442
01:31:53,990 --> 01:31:51,440
for a good reason sheldrick again this

2443
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:54,000
open spirit of of inquiry

2444
01:31:58,790 --> 01:31:56,960
allowed wiseman to use his whole video

2445
01:32:01,270 --> 01:31:58,800
camera set up in the whole experimental

2446
01:32:02,709 --> 01:32:01,280
setup you know which again it's it's

2447
01:32:04,149 --> 01:32:02,719
nice but he certainly didn't have to do

2448
01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:04,159
that he'd like look if you want to test

2449
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,440
this go test it on your own but no he

2450
01:32:08,550 --> 01:32:07,040
gave him the whole thing he went in

2451
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:08,560
there and totally changed the protocols

2452
01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:11,040
he faked it he deceived people wiseman

2453
01:32:15,750 --> 01:32:13,120
did and he rigged it so that the thing

2454
01:32:17,189 --> 01:32:15,760
didn't come out the way that it was and

2455
01:32:19,750 --> 01:32:17,199
to give people just a little bit of the

2456
01:32:22,149 --> 01:32:19,760
background on that it's like what

2457
01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:22,159
sheldrick's experiment was predicated

2458
01:32:26,629 --> 01:32:24,400
now india that the dog was demonstrating

2459
01:32:28,229 --> 01:32:26,639
this waiting behavior when the owner was

2460
01:32:30,070 --> 01:32:28,239
coming home and he defined what the

2461
01:32:32,310 --> 01:32:30,080
waiting behavior is it's going by the

2462
01:32:35,189 --> 01:32:32,320
window so it's pretty easy is he by the

2463
01:32:37,350 --> 01:32:35,199
window is he not by the window you know

2464
01:32:39,510 --> 01:32:37,360
arbitrarily richard wiseman came in and

2465
01:32:41,430 --> 01:32:39,520
said no no no no i'm only going to count

2466
01:32:43,430 --> 01:32:41,440
it if the dog goes over the window and

2467
01:32:45,030 --> 01:32:43,440
stays there for two minutes

2468
01:32:46,390 --> 01:32:45,040
at least two minutes that's the only

2469
01:32:48,629 --> 01:32:46,400
time it counts

2470
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:48,639
and then he went and got a negative a

2471
01:32:52,709 --> 01:32:50,560
null result and he published his work

2472
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:52,719
and shelter was like wait a minute maybe

2473
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:54,239
the dog smelled something over there and

2474
01:32:57,350 --> 01:32:56,000
was distracted and went off for five

2475
01:32:59,510 --> 01:32:57,360
seconds and came right back to the

2476
01:33:02,229 --> 01:32:59,520
window doesn't it still count no no no

2477
01:33:03,030 --> 01:33:02,239
no arbitrarily it has to be two minutes

2478
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:03,040
so

2479
01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:05,360
i i say that level of detail changing

2480
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:08,400
the criteria after it started it's it's

2481
01:33:11,590 --> 01:33:10,080
exactly terrific and i'm getting into

2482
01:33:13,270 --> 01:33:11,600
that little detail because that's what i

2483
01:33:16,149 --> 01:33:13,280
did on skeptica i had hours and hours

2484
01:33:18,629 --> 01:33:16,159
and hours of explaining just how

2485
01:33:20,870 --> 01:33:18,639
deceptive this was

2486
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:20,880
but after sheldrick had done the

2487
01:33:24,870 --> 01:33:23,120
experiment i was like well hell again

2488
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:24,880
i'm naive but like

2489
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:27,280
i'll let's do it let's replicate it

2490
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:29,280
let's just replicate the crap out of it

2491
01:33:33,510 --> 01:33:31,120
because now i'm pissed off you know that

2492
01:33:35,590 --> 01:33:33,520
now this is clearly scientific deception

2493
01:33:39,270 --> 01:33:35,600
i'm pissed off i'm like let's replicate

2494
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:39,280
this so i tried to replicate it i hired

2495
01:33:44,550 --> 01:33:41,600
again i put some money at the university

2496
01:33:47,350 --> 01:33:44,560
of florida this guy was really

2497
01:33:50,229 --> 01:33:47,360
he was doing research with canines with

2498
01:33:52,229 --> 01:33:50,239
dogs and we set it up and did that and

2499
01:33:55,590 --> 01:33:52,239
we got some results but his heart wasn't

2500
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:55,600
really in it he was a skeptic and i

2501
01:33:59,750 --> 01:33:57,920
in the show i document all those times

2502
01:34:03,189 --> 01:33:59,760
that we did it and stuff like that he's

2503
01:34:04,870 --> 01:34:03,199
not a bad guy but not really playing it

2504
01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:04,880
straight up so i said okay i'll do it

2505
01:34:10,709 --> 01:34:07,920
myself and i actually you can still find

2506
01:34:13,990 --> 01:34:10,719
online on youtube i found some woman

2507
01:34:16,629 --> 01:34:14,000
with a dog in california that i think

2508
01:34:19,350 --> 01:34:16,639
from the video clearly demonstrates

2509
01:34:22,709 --> 01:34:19,360
that waiting when they're coming home

2510
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:22,719
behavior but it it does take a little

2511
01:34:27,669 --> 01:34:25,040
bit more effort than just

2512
01:34:30,390 --> 01:34:27,679
me remotely part-time

2513
01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:30,400
running an experiment like that i spent

2514
01:34:34,470 --> 01:34:32,880
a considerable amount of time and effort

2515
01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:34,480
bought cameras

2516
01:34:38,709 --> 01:34:36,880
uh computers interviewed people tried to

2517
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:38,719
elicit people to do that yeah i heard in

2518
01:34:44,870 --> 01:34:40,880
one show you even offered to send a

2519
01:34:47,350 --> 01:34:44,880
computer to someone buy them a computer

2520
01:34:49,750 --> 01:34:47,360
i sent probably 10 computers out

2521
01:34:51,990 --> 01:34:49,760
hey i volunteered to pretend to do an

2522
01:34:54,149 --> 01:34:52,000
experiment send me a laptop i had

2523
01:34:55,590 --> 01:34:54,159
somebody you know what this was before i

2524
01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:55,600
was into i hope that didn't take

2525
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:57,280
advantage

2526
01:35:02,229 --> 01:34:59,600
well it's funny because again you know

2527
01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:02,239
you talk about the four phases it and i

2528
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:04,800
don't know what your four phases are but

2529
01:35:09,910 --> 01:35:07,280
one of the phase where i am firmly at

2530
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:09,920
now just because it's the accumulation

2531
01:35:12,709 --> 01:35:11,040
is that

2532
01:35:15,030 --> 01:35:12,719
there is

2533
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:15,040
it's about energy and it's about

2534
01:35:19,030 --> 01:35:16,960
positive light energy and negative

2535
01:35:22,149 --> 01:35:19,040
energy and the dark energy and i don't

2536
01:35:24,229 --> 01:35:22,159
fully understand that dark energy but i

2537
01:35:27,669 --> 01:35:24,239
have come to accept that it's real and

2538
01:35:29,990 --> 01:35:27,679
it really is very troubling for people

2539
01:35:32,229 --> 01:35:30,000
one of the computers that i gave away i

2540
01:35:34,629 --> 01:35:32,239
always remember this this woman called

2541
01:35:36,390 --> 01:35:34,639
me from a craigslist ad and said oh yeah

2542
01:35:37,510 --> 01:35:36,400
i'll do i got a dog who does that you

2543
01:35:39,270 --> 01:35:37,520
know

2544
01:35:41,109 --> 01:35:39,280
i said okay i'll go i'll bring the

2545
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:41,119
computer over and show you how to set it

2546
01:35:45,189 --> 01:35:42,400
up

2547
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:45,199
al i walked into this little apartment

2548
01:35:49,590 --> 01:35:47,440
in the ocean beach

2549
01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:49,600
and there was a group of people there

2550
01:35:54,149 --> 01:35:51,360
and it was one of the few times in my

2551
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:54,159
life where i just felt a darkness

2552
01:35:58,870 --> 01:35:56,480
just a darkness come over and these

2553
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:58,880
people that were all kind of shady on

2554
01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:00,960
the doing drugs and stuff like that

2555
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,080
right but

2556
01:36:06,950 --> 01:36:04,400
it's like i just wanted to get the hell

2557
01:36:08,709 --> 01:36:06,960
out of there as quickly as i could and

2558
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:08,719
only other the only other place i've

2559
01:36:15,189 --> 01:36:11,760
felt that energy like that

2560
01:36:18,229 --> 01:36:15,199
is in a prison in yuma arizona an old

2561
01:36:19,590 --> 01:36:18,239
1890s prison that you can still tour and

2562
01:36:21,510 --> 01:36:19,600
there's this one

2563
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:21,520
blackened room where they used to hold

2564
01:36:26,950 --> 01:36:23,280
people in isolation

2565
01:36:28,709 --> 01:36:26,960
and that's i wasn't there when i was

2566
01:36:31,830 --> 01:36:28,719
doing the dogs that no experience no no

2567
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:31,840
that was not on my radar no no and it is

2568
01:36:37,030 --> 01:36:34,880
now yeah interesting but that wasn't the

2569
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:37,040
only experiment we just heard the

2570
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:39,360
sighting and and globally yeah yeah i

2571
01:36:43,510 --> 01:36:42,080
was anything i was late right it's like

2572
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,520
i just thought that would solve it i

2573
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:45,119
thought that would fix it i thought that

2574
01:36:49,990 --> 01:36:47,280
would like rupert was saying okay that

2575
01:36:53,830 --> 01:36:50,000
goes for your motivation but but uh did

2576
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,840
you i mean naivete you should say yeah

2577
01:36:58,070 --> 01:36:56,080
but did you involve others too or was it

2578
01:36:59,109 --> 01:36:58,080
you doing it from your home or how did

2579
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:59,119
this work

2580
01:37:02,550 --> 01:37:01,119
oh anyone who would do yeah i i hired

2581
01:37:04,629 --> 01:37:02,560
some people along the way you know kind

2582
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:04,639
of part-time people but actually hire

2583
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:07,280
them wow yeah yeah but not not a huge

2584
01:37:11,270 --> 01:37:10,080
thing yeah and didn't you pay a skeptic

2585
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:11,280
researcher

2586
01:37:14,390 --> 01:37:12,880
i think you even paid a skeptic

2587
01:37:15,350 --> 01:37:14,400
researcher i think you mentioned that to

2588
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,360
me no

2589
01:37:18,070 --> 01:37:17,280
no because that was is it i mean at that

2590
01:37:19,750 --> 01:37:18,080
point

2591
01:37:21,350 --> 01:37:19,760
it doesn't take long to really see the

2592
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:21,360
foolishness of the skeptics i mean

2593
01:37:24,709 --> 01:37:23,119
they're just ridiculous yeah yeah yeah

2594
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:24,719
we're going to get to them yeah we're

2595
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:26,400
going to get to them soon but but i

2596
01:37:31,109 --> 01:37:28,560
think you involved a researcher at some

2597
01:37:33,350 --> 01:37:31,119
point i can't remember squeeze your your

2598
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:33,360
brain cells now oh yeah yeah no no the

2599
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:34,800
guy at florida yeah the guy at

2600
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:37,600
university of florida right yeah no no

2601
01:37:41,189 --> 01:37:40,320
yeah it he wasn't a skeptic per se he

2602
01:37:46,790 --> 01:37:41,199
was

2603
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:46,800
definition yeah of that paradigm like he

2604
01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:48,400
used to say he just had a completely

2605
01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:49,760
different paradigm

2606
01:37:53,590 --> 01:37:51,360
but he was willing to take a little bit

2607
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:53,600
of money and do the do the thing and the

2608
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:58,080
global consciousness project is that the

2609
01:38:02,550 --> 01:38:00,239
is that being raiding stuff no what's

2610
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:02,560
that again yeah that's where they have

2611
01:38:07,109 --> 01:38:05,360
the little random number right generator

2612
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:07,119
kind of thing is right and that's this

2613
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,480
psi experiment mentioned right yes okay

2614
01:38:14,470 --> 01:38:11,679
yes

2615
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:14,480
well at least you walk as you talked

2616
01:38:18,229 --> 01:38:16,400
it's not money who can

2617
01:38:22,870 --> 01:38:18,239
who can claim to have done this i think

2618
01:38:25,030 --> 01:38:22,880
this is is kudos for for trying it out

2619
01:38:27,510 --> 01:38:25,040
okay let's move on now people are aware

2620
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:27,520
of it uh i have another fun little clip

2621
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:29,040
for you

2622
01:38:33,510 --> 01:38:31,360
alex mcmahon the humble stoner host of

2623
01:38:36,310 --> 01:38:33,520
the higher side chats greg karlwood here

2624
01:38:38,629 --> 01:38:36,320
toasting you to one hell of a 15-year

2625
01:38:40,149 --> 01:38:38,639
podcasting ride of excellence that

2626
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:40,159
you've been on

2627
01:38:46,149 --> 01:38:42,000
very few folks can say they've been

2628
01:38:48,310 --> 01:38:46,159
podcasting for 15 years so kudos to you

2629
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:48,320
i can't remember exactly what the first

2630
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:50,880
skeptico episode i heard was but i've

2631
01:38:55,590 --> 01:38:53,600
obviously appreciated you for years

2632
01:38:57,750 --> 01:38:55,600
early interviews with rupert sheldrake

2633
01:38:59,629 --> 01:38:57,760
were so great to have found

2634
01:39:02,149 --> 01:38:59,639
of course my favorite ones are the

2635
01:39:04,229 --> 01:39:02,159
confrontational ones you are a master at

2636
01:39:05,590 --> 01:39:04,239
that and hey the truth is the truth

2637
01:39:07,590 --> 01:39:05,600
let's get at it

2638
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:07,600
and if a person is not going to factor

2639
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:09,600
consciousness into their scientific work

2640
01:39:13,270 --> 01:39:11,600
or their model of reality than of what

2641
01:39:16,950 --> 01:39:13,280
value is it really

2642
01:39:19,350 --> 01:39:16,960
just as any true analysis of power or

2643
01:39:21,990 --> 01:39:19,360
historic events or business has to

2644
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:22,000
factor in conspiracy or it's probably

2645
01:39:26,149 --> 01:39:23,760
grossly inaccurate

2646
01:39:28,629 --> 01:39:26,159
well you hold people to these points

2647
01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:28,639
with extreme consistency and it's a

2648
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:29,920
beautiful thing

2649
01:39:35,669 --> 01:39:33,199
plus i love the range of guest reactions

2650
01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:35,679
to a little bit of that classic skeptico

2651
01:39:40,149 --> 01:39:38,320
pressure tells you a lot about a person

2652
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:40,159
but that said we have definitely had

2653
01:39:45,510 --> 01:39:42,880
some great times going out for lunch and

2654
01:39:47,109 --> 01:39:45,520
talking shop you've always been great on

2655
01:39:49,669 --> 01:39:47,119
and off the air

2656
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:49,679
and cheers to another 15 years of

2657
01:39:54,310 --> 01:39:52,560
podcasting glory if the gods will it

2658
01:39:56,709 --> 01:39:54,320
you're one of the greats i'm lucky to

2659
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:56,719
know you

2660
01:40:01,350 --> 01:39:57,920
yeah that was

2661
01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:01,360
the very brilliant greg carl wood from

2662
01:40:05,109 --> 01:40:04,080
the highest chats i must say i mean even

2663
01:40:09,830 --> 01:40:05,119
this little

2664
01:40:12,390 --> 01:40:09,840
it's so professional yeah either that

2665
01:40:14,629 --> 01:40:12,400
guy's a natural born genius or he spends

2666
01:40:16,629 --> 01:40:14,639
a lot of energy making it right i mean

2667
01:40:18,149 --> 01:40:16,639
to to get very good products and that's

2668
01:40:19,830 --> 01:40:18,159
one of the things

2669
01:40:22,229 --> 01:40:19,840
you know i've complained about this

2670
01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:22,239
before right that so many podcasters

2671
01:40:26,709 --> 01:40:24,400
they're so lazy and

2672
01:40:28,790 --> 01:40:26,719
they don't give a damn and

2673
01:40:30,709 --> 01:40:28,800
they don't think actually you are kind

2674
01:40:33,189 --> 01:40:30,719
of among them you don't spend too much

2675
01:40:36,229 --> 01:40:33,199
energy on getting the shape of it but

2676
01:40:38,629 --> 01:40:36,239
you spend all that good energy on the

2677
01:40:39,750 --> 01:40:38,639
content and the goals at least you have

2678
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,760
that

2679
01:40:43,270 --> 01:40:41,280
and you bother with having a little

2680
01:40:45,910 --> 01:40:43,280
jingle and now you start with the movie

2681
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:45,920
clip so so i can't i can't really spank

2682
01:40:49,350 --> 01:40:47,520
you too much about this but there's so

2683
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:49,360
many who are just they just don't give

2684
01:40:55,189 --> 01:40:52,159
it even if there's a 20-second gap of

2685
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:55,199
silence they don't even edit that out

2686
01:40:59,350 --> 01:40:57,679
now greg on the other hand maybe this is

2687
01:41:01,350 --> 01:40:59,360
one of the keys to his success because

2688
01:41:03,669 --> 01:41:01,360
he's the one one of the more successful

2689
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:03,679
in this area i think what little i've

2690
01:41:08,229 --> 01:41:05,520
heard from him i haven't heard that much

2691
01:41:11,109 --> 01:41:08,239
but you can't avoid hearing thc

2692
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:11,119
what little i've heard such a good

2693
01:41:16,870 --> 01:41:14,400
production and even makes his own music

2694
01:41:19,350 --> 01:41:16,880
anyway you and him go back

2695
01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:19,360
some years don't you yes and it was

2696
01:41:24,790 --> 01:41:21,760
super so where on the journey did you

2697
01:41:27,590 --> 01:41:24,800
become because one of the things

2698
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:27,600
this clip goes to show that you i call

2699
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:29,760
you the godfather one of the reasons is

2700
01:41:33,510 --> 01:41:31,520
not just that you were early out but you

2701
01:41:35,830 --> 01:41:33,520
that you're such a spider you connect

2702
01:41:38,310 --> 01:41:35,840
with so many people you know everyone

2703
01:41:40,629 --> 01:41:38,320
who is anyone in this field

2704
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:40,639
i know you live in the same town as greg

2705
01:41:45,350 --> 01:41:42,880
so how long do you go back and how did

2706
01:41:48,870 --> 01:41:45,360
you guys discover each other i don't

2707
01:41:50,790 --> 01:41:48,880
know exactly how far back we go but um i

2708
01:41:53,189 --> 01:41:50,800
reached out to greg i thought he was

2709
01:41:55,109 --> 01:41:53,199
doing just great stuff and you know i

2710
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:55,119
was i was a fan

2711
01:41:58,790 --> 01:41:57,360
and we connected just on a bunch of

2712
01:42:01,350 --> 01:41:58,800
different levels it was super great to

2713
01:42:03,910 --> 01:42:01,360
hear him there and i've been on his show

2714
01:42:06,070 --> 01:42:03,920
a couple times and

2715
01:42:07,109 --> 01:42:06,080
you know it's just it's just cool it's

2716
01:42:09,109 --> 01:42:07,119
fun to

2717
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:09,119
to connect like what we're doing here

2718
01:42:12,709 --> 01:42:10,800
this is so sweet of you to do all this

2719
01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:12,719
stuff and it's so great

2720
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:14,400
you're such a guy but

2721
01:42:20,390 --> 01:42:17,440
anyways it's you realize how unique it

2722
01:42:21,750 --> 01:42:20,400
is to find people that collects on you

2723
01:42:23,430 --> 01:42:21,760
know these kind of topics and these kind

2724
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:23,440
of issues so it wasn't hard it was very

2725
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:26,400
natural because he is a he is a truth

2726
01:42:30,310 --> 01:42:28,639
seeker you know he is a freaking truth

2727
01:42:32,470 --> 01:42:30,320
seeker i mean he's right there with me

2728
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:32,480
on the skeptical journey

2729
01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:34,080
like he said

2730
01:42:38,709 --> 01:42:37,040
he raced well many good points some of

2731
01:42:40,390 --> 01:42:38,719
them retouched already but he mentioned

2732
01:42:41,590 --> 01:42:40,400
one important thing that we finally

2733
01:42:44,149 --> 01:42:41,600
gonna get to

2734
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:44,159
he said that one of his favorite things

2735
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:46,320
were your confrontations

2736
01:42:50,229 --> 01:42:48,239
with the skeptics you remember what i

2737
01:42:54,149 --> 01:42:50,239
was i said right i said

2738
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:54,159
uh let's say of the skeptical 10120

2739
01:42:59,510 --> 01:42:57,040
the most entertaining shows there is

2740
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,520
when you go head-to-head with one of

2741
01:43:02,470 --> 01:43:01,199
these dance

2742
01:43:05,189 --> 01:43:02,480
figures

2743
01:43:07,189 --> 01:43:05,199
whereas the more maybe enlightening

2744
01:43:09,109 --> 01:43:07,199
shows are when you have a so-called

2745
01:43:12,390 --> 01:43:09,119
friendly into you

2746
01:43:17,030 --> 01:43:12,400
but that's my assessment now uh let's

2747
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:17,040
hear how you describe uh

2748
01:43:22,310 --> 01:43:20,480
on the fanatical pseudoskeptics

2749
01:43:24,229 --> 01:43:22,320
those are like two different universes i

2750
01:43:26,390 --> 01:43:24,239
mean one of the things that skeptical

2751
01:43:29,030 --> 01:43:26,400
did again because i came in this from

2752
01:43:31,830 --> 01:43:29,040
the outside i saw naturally that these

2753
01:43:33,669 --> 01:43:31,840
two things fit together if the skeptic's

2754
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:33,679
guide to the universe and skepticality

2755
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:35,520
and skeptoid and all the rest of them

2756
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:37,360
are talking about

2757
01:43:41,109 --> 01:43:40,320
parapsychology albeit in a disparaging

2758
01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:41,119
way

2759
01:43:46,310 --> 01:43:43,920
then naturally they're going to want to

2760
01:43:47,990 --> 01:43:46,320
dialogue with those researchers and i

2761
01:43:50,070 --> 01:43:48,000
was naive enough to think that they

2762
01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:50,080
actually did what i found is that they

2763
01:43:55,270 --> 01:43:53,440
don't but they really want is to be left

2764
01:43:57,590 --> 01:43:55,280
in their little island over there in

2765
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:57,600
their little world and talk about these

2766
01:44:01,109 --> 01:43:59,280
things among themselves i think that's

2767
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:01,119
wrong-headed i mean how can you say you

2768
01:44:05,830 --> 01:44:02,560
really want to have it

2769
01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:05,840
you want to engage in an intellectual

2770
01:44:09,430 --> 01:44:07,840
kind of free thought critical

2771
01:44:11,270 --> 01:44:09,440
examination of these things without

2772
01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:11,280
looking at the other side it seems silly

2773
01:44:16,709 --> 01:44:13,760
yet that is the landscape they really

2774
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:16,719
don't want to interact with anyone i

2775
01:44:20,709 --> 01:44:19,040
guess i bridge that a little bit but

2776
01:44:22,709 --> 01:44:20,719
then anyone who's been around the show

2777
01:44:24,790 --> 01:44:22,719
for a while as you know

2778
01:44:26,790 --> 01:44:24,800
that becomes

2779
01:44:29,910 --> 01:44:26,800
tedious tiresome and worn out pretty

2780
01:44:32,470 --> 01:44:29,920
soon too because there's not a lot of

2781
01:44:33,990 --> 01:44:32,480
real interaction there with the hardcore

2782
01:44:35,270 --> 01:44:34,000
skeptics and atheists they just kind of

2783
01:44:36,870 --> 01:44:35,280
have this party-line kind of thing

2784
01:44:39,510 --> 01:44:36,880
that's hard to penetrate what is

2785
01:44:41,669 --> 01:44:39,520
effective is going to i guess the level

2786
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:41,679
two people behind that the the

2787
01:44:46,229 --> 01:44:43,760
mainstream researchers

2788
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:46,239
in the field who more or less

2789
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:48,880
echo a lot of those same skeptical

2790
01:44:52,870 --> 01:44:51,119
materialist atheist kind of worldview

2791
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:52,880
things and

2792
01:44:57,189 --> 01:44:55,520
kind of pulling them into uh this kind

2793
01:44:59,109 --> 01:44:57,199
of debate and dialogue i think is

2794
01:45:01,350 --> 01:44:59,119
fruitful and will remain fruitful for as

2795
01:45:03,750 --> 01:45:01,360
long as i want to do it oh i've tried

2796
01:45:05,030 --> 01:45:03,760
i've pursued steve novella a half dozen

2797
01:45:08,229 --> 01:45:05,040
times since then

2798
01:45:11,030 --> 01:45:08,239
so i used to respond although

2799
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:11,040
very slowly to my request he doesn't

2800
01:45:14,870 --> 01:45:12,960
respond anymore which has been the case

2801
01:45:17,109 --> 01:45:14,880
over and over again with with skeptics

2802
01:45:19,750 --> 01:45:17,119
and they lose an argument and they run

2803
01:45:22,149 --> 01:45:19,760
away i mean that sounds kind of harsh

2804
01:45:24,950 --> 01:45:22,159
but it really is the truth there just

2805
01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:24,960
should be so much more engagement with

2806
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:27,360
these issues in a debate format it

2807
01:45:30,709 --> 01:45:29,199
really doesn't wash the skeptical

2808
01:45:33,830 --> 01:45:30,719
position at the end of the day it

2809
01:45:35,669 --> 01:45:33,840
doesn't hold i mean i'm here i will

2810
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:35,679
engage debate whatever you want to call

2811
01:45:39,830 --> 01:45:37,360
it anyone

2812
01:45:41,189 --> 01:45:39,840
anywhere anytime i don't know why anyone

2813
01:45:43,189 --> 01:45:41,199
wouldn't do the same i mean if you think

2814
01:45:45,270 --> 01:45:43,199
your ideas hold up you got to say hey

2815
01:45:48,070 --> 01:45:45,280
bring it on and i think this has become

2816
01:45:51,030 --> 01:45:48,080
an issue for me lately mainly because

2817
01:45:54,390 --> 01:45:51,040
what i've seen unfolding in the rupert

2818
01:45:56,950 --> 01:45:54,400
sheldrick wikipedia drama now for those

2819
01:45:58,870 --> 01:45:56,960
of you who don't know what's going on

2820
01:46:00,870 --> 01:45:58,880
there rupert sheldrick is a cambridge

2821
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:00,880
biologist who has some mildly

2822
01:46:05,590 --> 01:46:03,520
controversial ideas about this thing

2823
01:46:08,550 --> 01:46:05,600
called morphic residence well for

2824
01:46:11,270 --> 01:46:08,560
whatever reason he's gained the ire of

2825
01:46:12,709 --> 01:46:11,280
the skeptical community if you will and

2826
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:12,719
they've all gotten together and just

2827
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,880
kind of taken over his wikipedia page

2828
01:46:18,709 --> 01:46:17,119
and turned it into a total mess and when

2829
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:18,719
a couple of folks went in there and

2830
01:46:22,229 --> 01:46:20,560
tried to clean it up and trying to add

2831
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:22,239
some other references to give it a more

2832
01:46:26,550 --> 01:46:24,320
neutral point of view they just ran them

2833
01:46:28,709 --> 01:46:26,560
right out of wikipedia which i have to

2834
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:28,719
say i predicted and i told these guys

2835
01:46:31,830 --> 01:46:30,400
that's exactly what it's going to happen

2836
01:46:35,270 --> 01:46:31,840
because i think people are on the

2837
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:35,280
outside don't understand the nastiness

2838
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:38,400
that goes on inside of certain aspects

2839
01:46:43,030 --> 01:46:40,400
of the skeptical community and and how

2840
01:46:45,669 --> 01:46:43,040
unrelenting they are in this kind of

2841
01:46:47,750 --> 01:46:45,679
fanatical point of view

2842
01:46:50,950 --> 01:46:47,760
yeah and that was that was the silk

2843
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:50,960
globe version of describing uh this fact

2844
01:46:56,709 --> 01:46:53,520
in my view but okay the thing is you

2845
01:46:59,189 --> 01:46:56,719
started sincerely with inquiring and at

2846
01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:59,199
some point i suspect pretty early you

2847
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:01,920
you realized what's what here

2848
01:47:07,109 --> 01:47:04,560
and i remember because you were big in

2849
01:47:08,709 --> 01:47:07,119
the beginning in terms of numbers not

2850
01:47:10,390 --> 01:47:08,719
just because there wasn't that many

2851
01:47:13,270 --> 01:47:10,400
podcasts because you were one of the

2852
01:47:16,390 --> 01:47:13,280
unique forums where you brought together

2853
01:47:19,030 --> 01:47:16,400
the different sites not as a

2854
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:19,040
primitive gladiator

2855
01:47:23,510 --> 01:47:20,800
entertainment thing

2856
01:47:24,950 --> 01:47:23,520
more as a truth-seeking thing and my my

2857
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:24,960
theory is that

2858
01:47:28,550 --> 01:47:27,280
when skeptics we call them skeptics they

2859
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:28,560
of course shoot the skeptics but these

2860
01:47:35,510 --> 01:47:31,920
fanatics they don't mind really if they

2861
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,520
are going to be on a tribal gladiator

2862
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:37,440
the battle kind of thing especially if

2863
01:47:42,870 --> 01:47:40,080
they know that the other side

2864
01:47:45,510 --> 01:47:42,880
is usually a religious nut case because

2865
01:47:48,149 --> 01:47:45,520
they are easy to to

2866
01:47:51,590 --> 01:47:48,159
get these cheap shots from and and

2867
01:47:52,470 --> 01:47:51,600
so-called expose so that they will do

2868
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:52,480
but

2869
01:47:56,310 --> 01:47:54,320
when they see i don't know if you're

2870
01:47:57,270 --> 01:47:56,320
aware of this yourself but i've noticed

2871
01:47:59,270 --> 01:47:57,280
this

2872
01:48:00,870 --> 01:47:59,280
when they realize

2873
01:48:02,629 --> 01:48:00,880
even if they know who you are already

2874
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,639
but when they realize that you're not

2875
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:04,400
there for your ego and you're not there

2876
01:48:08,390 --> 01:48:06,400
to fight and you're not there to just

2877
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:08,400
give them an advertisement platform all

2878
01:48:14,149 --> 01:48:10,560
those things they like

2879
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:14,159
but you're sincerely inquiring

2880
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:16,080
for the truth

2881
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:18,800
with scientific tools

2882
01:48:23,270 --> 01:48:19,760
that's

2883
01:48:25,590 --> 01:48:23,280
them out

2884
01:48:28,149 --> 01:48:25,600
that more than anything they follow the

2885
01:48:29,830 --> 01:48:28,159
data point to the science is

2886
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:29,840
why they fear you it's not because

2887
01:48:33,669 --> 01:48:30,960
you're a good

2888
01:48:35,189 --> 01:48:33,679
debater and can get some quick

2889
01:48:36,950 --> 01:48:35,199
sheep points in

2890
01:48:39,270 --> 01:48:36,960
quick shots they they can handle that

2891
01:48:41,350 --> 01:48:39,280
they do the same but

2892
01:48:43,910 --> 01:48:41,360
the the whole the whole paradigm

2893
01:48:46,629 --> 01:48:43,920
crumbles when it's not like oh we're not

2894
01:48:48,709 --> 01:48:46,639
here to do a partisan fight we had to

2895
01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:48,719
actually find the truth

2896
01:48:52,550 --> 01:48:50,480
that's like look everybody understands

2897
01:48:54,709 --> 01:48:52,560
if it's a horse witness you always

2898
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:54,719
witness yes if he's going to convert you

2899
01:48:59,830 --> 01:48:57,280
no problem he will he will come if it's

2900
01:49:00,870 --> 01:48:59,840
going to be to applaud him yes he will

2901
01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:00,880
come

2902
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:04,239
even a battle but if it's truth if yeah

2903
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:06,400
you know when your host witness was

2904
01:49:10,709 --> 01:49:08,480
founded and look here's the original

2905
01:49:13,109 --> 01:49:10,719
bible you had and oh no they're gonna

2906
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:13,119
it's all sectarians freak out

2907
01:49:17,189 --> 01:49:14,880
scientologist what you gonna tell me

2908
01:49:19,589 --> 01:49:17,199
that herbert was involved with oto i'm

2909
01:49:23,669 --> 01:49:19,599
out of here you understand what i mean

2910
01:49:25,750 --> 01:49:23,679
i do and uh again i'm so tempted to go

2911
01:49:29,589 --> 01:49:25,760
to level three which is where we usually

2912
01:49:31,830 --> 01:49:29,599
go so i'll reign that in and just say

2913
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:31,840
i think what has happened in the last

2914
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,280
two years

2915
01:49:37,510 --> 01:49:35,199
brings all that

2916
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:37,520
in focus in a different way that you and

2917
01:49:42,070 --> 01:49:39,920
i are are just now kind of wrapping our

2918
01:49:44,550 --> 01:49:42,080
our head around and you know it's it's

2919
01:49:46,950 --> 01:49:44,560
the kind of the skeptic the skeptics

2920
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:46,960
always say so many brilliant things only

2921
01:49:50,070 --> 01:49:48,320
they don't realize they're brilliant

2922
01:49:52,149 --> 01:49:50,080
because they're the exact opposite of

2923
01:49:53,910 --> 01:49:52,159
the way they interpret them but you know

2924
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:53,920
it really is an issue of why people

2925
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:55,760
believe weird things

2926
01:50:01,109 --> 01:49:57,840
fundamentally it's it's why people

2927
01:50:04,070 --> 01:50:01,119
believe weird things so skeptics believe

2928
01:50:06,149 --> 01:50:04,080
weird things they believe that you're

2929
01:50:07,750 --> 01:50:06,159
you're not conscious they believe that

2930
01:50:09,750 --> 01:50:07,760
you're a biological robot meaningless

2931
01:50:11,270 --> 01:50:09,760
universe even though everything they

2932
01:50:12,310 --> 01:50:11,280
know our whole world tells them

2933
01:50:14,070 --> 01:50:12,320
differently

2934
01:50:15,990 --> 01:50:14,080
they believe it that's a very weird

2935
01:50:17,910 --> 01:50:16,000
thing to believe they believe that they

2936
01:50:20,950 --> 01:50:17,920
should focus on some science and

2937
01:50:21,910 --> 01:50:20,960
completely ignore other science that's a

2938
01:50:23,270 --> 01:50:21,920
weird

2939
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:23,280
thing to believe

2940
01:50:26,709 --> 01:50:25,040
religious people

2941
01:50:28,790 --> 01:50:26,719
even like you said you just said it you

2942
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:28,800
know you can kind of say

2943
01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:31,520
do you really think that the quran where

2944
01:50:35,589 --> 01:50:33,280
it says that you can take women as

2945
01:50:36,790 --> 01:50:35,599
slaves and do whatever you want with

2946
01:50:39,189 --> 01:50:36,800
them and then they but they have to wear

2947
01:50:40,870 --> 01:50:39,199
a veil do you think all these rules

2948
01:50:42,149 --> 01:50:40,880
same with judaism all these rules you

2949
01:50:44,229 --> 01:50:42,159
got to dance around three times and

2950
01:50:45,990 --> 01:50:44,239
don't touch electronics does any of that

2951
01:50:47,270 --> 01:50:46,000
really make any sense

2952
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:47,280
no but

2953
01:50:52,149 --> 01:50:50,159
so why do people believe weird things

2954
01:50:53,030 --> 01:50:52,159
which is the title of a book that i

2955
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:53,040
think

2956
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:57,119
shermer or one of those people wrote in

2957
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,040
it's the opposite again so their thing

2958
01:51:04,310 --> 01:51:02,000
was like why do people believe in

2959
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:04,320
ghosts and extended consciousness wow

2960
01:51:09,589 --> 01:51:06,719
what a weird thing it's like no that's

2961
01:51:11,669 --> 01:51:09,599
not weird at the same time they believe

2962
01:51:13,750 --> 01:51:11,679
that you can upload human consciousness

2963
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:13,760
to a computer and they believe that a

2964
01:51:18,950 --> 01:51:17,040
computer can be sentient

2965
01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:18,960
that's just as weird

2966
01:51:25,430 --> 01:51:22,719
well and as you and i know that probably

2967
01:51:28,589 --> 01:51:25,440
isn't really what they even care about

2968
01:51:32,070 --> 01:51:28,599
there any anyway uh i think the

2969
01:51:35,589 --> 01:51:32,080
transhumanist agenda is really

2970
01:51:38,709 --> 01:51:35,599
much more about other uh oh sure sure

2971
01:51:41,669 --> 01:51:38,719
but but they need the materialist

2972
01:51:44,470 --> 01:51:41,679
paradigm as a a useful idiot to

2973
01:51:47,589 --> 01:51:44,480
implement that agenda yeah

2974
01:51:49,990 --> 01:51:47,599
well we all know that yeah so but it is

2975
01:51:51,750 --> 01:51:50,000
famous some of these shows where you had

2976
01:51:54,790 --> 01:51:51,760
uh had to had with some of these

2977
01:51:57,510 --> 01:51:54,800
skeptics are infamous or famous whatever

2978
01:52:00,310 --> 01:51:57,520
you want to choose but i remember even

2979
01:52:03,510 --> 01:52:00,320
even people you know i said many people

2980
01:52:05,910 --> 01:52:03,520
in my circle back then were listening to

2981
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:05,920
you and and i picked up some shows via

2982
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:08,800
facebook then but i remember

2983
01:52:13,589 --> 01:52:11,040
after a while when you started to

2984
01:52:16,709 --> 01:52:13,599
realize what was going on and and that

2985
01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:16,719
really harbinger in the transition from

2986
01:52:22,470 --> 01:52:19,760
skeptical 1 0 to 2-0 but you didn't just

2987
01:52:24,229 --> 01:52:22,480
lose skeptics as listener you even lost

2988
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:24,239
agnostics and

2989
01:52:29,350 --> 01:52:27,119
and people who was at the pro let's say

2990
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:29,360
sheldrake side because

2991
01:52:32,950 --> 01:52:30,960
and you touched upon it

2992
01:52:36,550 --> 01:52:32,960
what they wanted and expected and were

2993
01:52:38,950 --> 01:52:36,560
used to was this usual gladiator battle

2994
01:52:41,910 --> 01:52:38,960
uh is stuck on stupid debate that you're

2995
01:52:44,310 --> 01:52:41,920
gonna elaborate on late in a later clip

2996
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:44,320
so they couldn't handle that you moved

2997
01:52:49,510 --> 01:52:47,599
on from stuck on stupid uh

2998
01:52:51,589 --> 01:52:49,520
and and i wanted it to take it to level

2999
01:52:53,510 --> 01:52:51,599
two or skeptical two oh do you agree

3000
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:53,520
with that um

3001
01:52:56,870 --> 01:52:54,960
i totally agree with that and i'm

3002
01:52:58,629 --> 01:52:56,880
itching to ask you what you think that

3003
01:52:59,750 --> 01:52:58,639
is about why people

3004
01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:59,760
remain

3005
01:53:02,709 --> 01:53:01,199
married to

3006
01:53:04,550 --> 01:53:02,719
a debate maybe it's because they feel

3007
01:53:06,709 --> 01:53:04,560
like comfortable that they've

3008
01:53:10,950 --> 01:53:06,719
won that they want to stay in that okay

3009
01:53:12,390 --> 01:53:10,960
work we've won that so we i don't get it

3010
01:53:15,430 --> 01:53:12,400
i think you actually

3011
01:53:17,589 --> 01:53:15,440
speculate about it in one of the clips i

3012
01:53:19,109 --> 01:53:17,599
have lined out and i think you're on the

3013
01:53:21,910 --> 01:53:19,119
money there but

3014
01:53:23,189 --> 01:53:21,920
now it's just one of those things people

3015
01:53:25,030 --> 01:53:23,199
are

3016
01:53:27,750 --> 01:53:25,040
habitual maybe

3017
01:53:30,070 --> 01:53:27,760
they came into it with that format and

3018
01:53:31,830 --> 01:53:30,080
they didn't like i don't think those in

3019
01:53:34,950 --> 01:53:31,840
the beginning realized it was going to

3020
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:34,960
become a real journey right right

3021
01:53:38,470 --> 01:53:36,000
usually

3022
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:38,480
if people uh make something work you

3023
01:53:44,149 --> 01:53:41,840
know don't fix it if it works so um i

3024
01:53:47,189 --> 01:53:44,159
think that's too much for some

3025
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:47,199
so if if i'm used to having at netflix

3026
01:53:51,830 --> 01:53:50,159
like romantic comedies i sit and watch

3027
01:53:53,350 --> 01:53:51,840
there or whatever and then suddenly they

3028
01:53:54,950 --> 01:53:53,360
start pushing a lot of conspiracy

3029
01:53:57,510 --> 01:53:54,960
documentaries

3030
01:53:59,910 --> 01:53:57,520
i'm out of here you know what i mean

3031
01:54:02,709 --> 01:53:59,920
hey hey it's you you i think you're spot

3032
01:54:04,310 --> 01:54:02,719
on with that and it's a you know what we

3033
01:54:06,629 --> 01:54:04,320
again it's the

3034
01:54:08,070 --> 01:54:06,639
two quotes back to the shirley mclean

3035
01:54:10,149 --> 01:54:08,080
it's all about entertainment and the

3036
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:10,159
other is the very famous fantastic

3037
01:54:14,709 --> 01:54:11,280
canadian

3038
01:54:17,030 --> 01:54:14,719
media just mystic marshall mcluhan the

3039
01:54:19,270 --> 01:54:17,040
medium is the message you know

3040
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:19,280
he said you don't read the sunday times

3041
01:54:23,109 --> 01:54:20,960
back when there was a newspaper you get

3042
01:54:25,109 --> 01:54:23,119
into it like a warm bath well we can all

3043
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:25,119
relate to that you sit down to watch the

3044
01:54:29,350 --> 01:54:27,360
ball game it's really not about the

3045
01:54:31,189 --> 01:54:29,360
teams although you'd like to think it is

3046
01:54:33,109 --> 01:54:31,199
it's about the whole experience the

3047
01:54:35,189 --> 01:54:33,119
memories i used to do this with my dad

3048
01:54:38,070 --> 01:54:35,199
this is my couches where i sit it's the

3049
01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:38,080
whole experience so when somebody comes

3050
01:54:43,910 --> 01:54:41,280
along and says you know formed barialis

3051
01:54:46,149 --> 01:54:43,920
is about this and the next thing you do

3052
01:54:49,589 --> 01:54:46,159
and you say well you know what i just

3053
01:54:51,669 --> 01:54:49,599
learned this so now foreign borealis has

3054
01:54:53,910 --> 01:54:51,679
to change because what i thought i knew

3055
01:54:56,070 --> 01:54:53,920
i know knows something different people

3056
01:54:57,669 --> 01:54:56,080
are like oh what about that spot i had

3057
01:54:59,270 --> 01:54:57,679
on the couch where i used to always

3058
01:55:00,629 --> 01:54:59,280
watch the vlogging

3059
01:55:04,629 --> 01:55:00,639
right right

3060
01:55:06,790 --> 01:55:04,639
yeah yeah well put but this really

3061
01:55:07,910 --> 01:55:06,800
is the transition from skeptical one or

3062
01:55:09,990 --> 01:55:07,920
two two o

3063
01:55:12,470 --> 01:55:10,000
the next clip it's one of the longer

3064
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:12,480
ones but i i titled it trouble in

3065
01:55:16,870 --> 01:55:13,920
paradise

3066
01:55:18,950 --> 01:55:16,880
not about the data big questions driving

3067
01:55:21,589 --> 01:55:18,960
points i think you explain very

3068
01:55:23,830 --> 01:55:21,599
succinctly here how calm the transition

3069
01:55:27,270 --> 01:55:23,840
from 1 0 to 2 0

3070
01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:27,280
happened so let's listen to that

3071
01:55:32,390 --> 01:55:30,000
well i think you've kind of pinpointed

3072
01:55:34,550 --> 01:55:32,400
really a turning point in the show

3073
01:55:36,709 --> 01:55:34,560
at least in my mind and that's that i

3074
01:55:39,189 --> 01:55:36,719
had this idea starting out that it's

3075
01:55:41,350 --> 01:55:39,199
about the data you know this is science

3076
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:41,360
after all and science is concerned with

3077
01:55:46,950 --> 01:55:44,400
measurement and data and evidence and my

3078
01:55:48,950 --> 01:55:46,960
thought was hey look let's just try and

3079
01:55:52,070 --> 01:55:48,960
get our arms around the data let's get

3080
01:55:54,229 --> 01:55:52,080
good data and then any reasonable person

3081
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:54,239
will be able to sort that out and decide

3082
01:55:58,149 --> 01:55:55,840
one way or another

3083
01:56:00,390 --> 01:55:58,159
and i pretty quickly

3084
01:56:02,070 --> 01:56:00,400
got an idea that maybe that wasn't as

3085
01:56:03,589 --> 01:56:02,080
simple as i thought and that there were

3086
01:56:06,390 --> 01:56:03,599
other things going on

3087
01:56:09,830 --> 01:56:06,400
the the whole thinking with how we can

3088
01:56:11,990 --> 01:56:09,840
remain completely married to these

3089
01:56:13,510 --> 01:56:12,000
beliefs and to this

3090
01:56:15,350 --> 01:56:13,520
interpretation of the data that just

3091
01:56:17,990 --> 01:56:15,360
doesn't fit with just the kind of common

3092
01:56:19,270 --> 01:56:18,000
sense understanding of it really sent me

3093
01:56:22,790 --> 01:56:19,280
in a different direction and saying you

3094
01:56:24,870 --> 01:56:22,800
know what it's not about the data it's

3095
01:56:26,790 --> 01:56:24,880
really about everything else it's about

3096
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:26,800
why we believe what we believe how our

3097
01:56:30,709 --> 01:56:28,480
belief systems develop how our belief

3098
01:56:32,470 --> 01:56:30,719
systems change and until we really

3099
01:56:33,589 --> 01:56:32,480
figure that stuff out

3100
01:56:35,510 --> 01:56:33,599
then

3101
01:56:37,750 --> 01:56:35,520
all this stuff about the data is more or

3102
01:56:39,910 --> 01:56:37,760
less a sideshow when i do those shows

3103
01:56:41,270 --> 01:56:39,920
the reaction is usually polarized

3104
01:56:43,910 --> 01:56:41,280
there's so many people and this always

3105
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:43,920
surprises me who are proponents

3106
01:56:48,229 --> 01:56:46,080
believers if you will who are really

3107
01:56:50,070 --> 01:56:48,239
offended i mean they just don't like

3108
01:56:51,390 --> 01:56:50,080
controversy you can see and they don't

3109
01:56:53,830 --> 01:56:51,400
like this kind of

3110
01:56:55,990 --> 01:56:53,840
confrontational battling it out kind of

3111
01:56:57,750 --> 01:56:56,000
thing and that always surprised me i i

3112
01:57:00,070 --> 01:56:57,760
don't know how you really get to the

3113
01:57:02,629 --> 01:57:00,080
bottom of things that you care about

3114
01:57:05,030 --> 01:57:02,639
deeply or that you have strong opinions

3115
01:57:07,830 --> 01:57:05,040
about without having a little bit of

3116
01:57:10,310 --> 01:57:07,840
friction and while i don't seek those

3117
01:57:13,030 --> 01:57:10,320
shows out and i don't think those need

3118
01:57:15,750 --> 01:57:13,040
to be the main focus of skeptico i do

3119
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:15,760
feel a need to revisit those topics

3120
01:57:19,830 --> 01:57:17,840
every now and again because one of the

3121
01:57:21,669 --> 01:57:19,840
conclusions that i came to in this hey

3122
01:57:24,790 --> 01:57:21,679
it's not about the data it's about

3123
01:57:26,470 --> 01:57:24,800
everything else is there's a question i

3124
01:57:27,669 --> 01:57:26,480
think in the back of everyone's mind

3125
01:57:30,229 --> 01:57:27,679
which is

3126
01:57:32,229 --> 01:57:30,239
how can this be i mean here's this guy

3127
01:57:34,870 --> 01:57:32,239
or here's this group of people who are

3128
01:57:37,270 --> 01:57:34,880
saying fundamentally the scientific

3129
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:37,280
model that we have is flawed

3130
01:57:39,990 --> 01:57:38,960
and the immediate question you have to

3131
01:57:41,910 --> 01:57:40,000
be is

3132
01:57:44,709 --> 01:57:41,920
how can that be wait a minute i have

3133
01:57:47,830 --> 01:57:44,719
this iphone 5 here that is a testament

3134
01:57:50,470 --> 01:57:47,840
to how great science is so don't tell me

3135
01:57:53,109 --> 01:57:50,480
science is wrong how can this be so i

3136
01:57:55,350 --> 01:57:53,119
think we have to occasionally go back

3137
01:57:57,350 --> 01:57:55,360
and revisit that and really look hard at

3138
01:57:59,430 --> 01:57:57,360
what the other folks have to say the

3139
01:58:01,990 --> 01:57:59,440
folks who say no you are a biological

3140
01:58:03,510 --> 01:58:02,000
robot life does have no meaning and it's

3141
01:58:05,589 --> 01:58:03,520
all about machines

3142
01:58:08,310 --> 01:58:05,599
i think we do have to go back and give

3143
01:58:11,189 --> 01:58:08,320
them the floor every once in a while and

3144
01:58:13,910 --> 01:58:11,199
and hash that out with them to me at a

3145
01:58:16,149 --> 01:58:13,920
very kind of deep personal level i

3146
01:58:18,709 --> 01:58:16,159
always wondered why everyone wasn't

3147
01:58:21,189 --> 01:58:18,719
interested in these topics why i always

3148
01:58:23,750 --> 01:58:21,199
wondered why these weren't the first and

3149
01:58:26,870 --> 01:58:23,760
foremost questions on everyone's mind i

3150
01:58:29,990 --> 01:58:26,880
mean most of us spend so much time on

3151
01:58:32,550 --> 01:58:30,000
ridiculously silly things of the weather

3152
01:58:35,669 --> 01:58:32,560
or sports or news or all the rest of

3153
01:58:38,470 --> 01:58:35,679
that when the big questions are who are

3154
01:58:41,669 --> 01:58:38,480
we really what happens to us after we

3155
01:58:43,830 --> 01:58:41,679
die how are we related to

3156
01:58:47,109 --> 01:58:43,840
not only each other but the universe i

3157
01:58:49,750 --> 01:58:47,119
mean these are the big big big questions

3158
01:58:51,430 --> 01:58:49,760
and i guess i always had a sense of hey

3159
01:58:53,669 --> 01:58:51,440
am i not getting the newsletter here i

3160
01:58:55,830 --> 01:58:53,679
mean does everyone else know the answers

3161
01:58:57,990 --> 01:58:55,840
to these because why isn't

3162
01:59:00,149 --> 01:58:58,000
why isn't this foremost on everyone's

3163
01:59:01,910 --> 01:59:00,159
mind and then you you kind of get into

3164
01:59:03,189 --> 01:59:01,920
life and you want to make a living and

3165
01:59:05,030 --> 01:59:03,199
you want to have a family and all that

3166
01:59:06,790 --> 01:59:05,040
we all understand that and you say hey i

3167
01:59:09,189 --> 01:59:06,800
can't deal with all those things right

3168
01:59:10,950 --> 01:59:09,199
now they don't seem to be pressing as as

3169
01:59:12,870 --> 01:59:10,960
much as the mortgage payment of the car

3170
01:59:13,910 --> 01:59:12,880
payment is so i kind of put them to the

3171
01:59:15,669 --> 01:59:13,920
side but

3172
01:59:17,910 --> 01:59:15,679
to me they always seem to be the

3173
01:59:18,709 --> 01:59:17,920
questions that i wanted to come back to

3174
01:59:21,430 --> 01:59:18,719
so

3175
01:59:24,709 --> 01:59:21,440
that really is the driving force of

3176
01:59:26,709 --> 01:59:24,719
skeptical along with the idea that i had

3177
01:59:29,189 --> 01:59:26,719
all along because of my business

3178
01:59:32,470 --> 01:59:29,199
experience and that was the idea that i

3179
01:59:35,109 --> 01:59:32,480
can learn i can get better i can improve

3180
01:59:37,270 --> 01:59:35,119
because i was someone who despite having

3181
01:59:39,430 --> 01:59:37,280
the right academic background and

3182
01:59:41,990 --> 01:59:39,440
education background was

3183
01:59:44,390 --> 01:59:42,000
failing pretty miserably at business

3184
01:59:46,629 --> 01:59:44,400
before i kind of went on a massive kind

3185
01:59:48,390 --> 01:59:46,639
of learning campaign in terms of how to

3186
01:59:49,990 --> 01:59:48,400
make myself better and how to improve in

3187
01:59:51,669 --> 01:59:50,000
that so i kind of took that

3188
01:59:55,910 --> 01:59:51,679
self-improvement

3189
01:59:58,709 --> 01:59:55,920
that led to business success and said

3190
02:00:01,830 --> 01:59:58,719
hey i can bootstrap myself into knowing

3191
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:01,840
the answer to these big big questions

3192
02:00:06,790 --> 02:00:03,920
and that's really been i guess the

3193
02:00:08,310 --> 02:00:06,800
driving force of skeptico

3194
02:00:10,070 --> 02:00:08,320
so

3195
02:00:12,470 --> 02:00:10,080
first i call this clip trouble in

3196
02:00:14,390 --> 02:00:12,480
paradise for two reasons number one you

3197
02:00:16,709 --> 02:00:14,400
smelled a rat

3198
02:00:19,030 --> 02:00:16,719
which is why you moved from skeptical

3199
02:00:21,830 --> 02:00:19,040
one or two two o but also like we just

3200
02:00:23,830 --> 02:00:21,840
said some listeners they have a trouble

3201
02:00:26,470 --> 02:00:23,840
in paradise for them too that you moved

3202
02:00:28,709 --> 02:00:26,480
on higher up the mountain so they fell

3203
02:00:31,510 --> 02:00:28,719
off but let me ask you

3204
02:00:33,589 --> 02:00:31,520
when you started to understand what's

3205
02:00:35,430 --> 02:00:33,599
what when it comes to these skeptics and

3206
02:00:38,229 --> 02:00:35,440
materialists

3207
02:00:40,790 --> 02:00:38,239
about when did that happen how early did

3208
02:00:42,550 --> 02:00:40,800
you become convinced i mean first time i

3209
02:00:44,070 --> 02:00:42,560
guess you thought it was a one-off

3210
02:00:46,390 --> 02:00:44,080
second time

3211
02:00:47,270 --> 02:00:46,400
you talked with such a guy i guess you

3212
02:00:52,229 --> 02:00:47,280
you

3213
02:00:55,350 --> 02:00:52,239
managed to talk with anyone at the truth

3214
02:00:58,390 --> 02:00:55,360
level and sincere level and scientific

3215
02:01:00,550 --> 02:00:58,400
level that you were naively expecting

3216
02:01:02,709 --> 02:01:00,560
then obviously it became clear so how

3217
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:02,719
early did that happen that you became

3218
02:01:09,270 --> 02:01:05,360
convinced and was that really the

3219
02:01:12,390 --> 02:01:09,280
impetus to move to to a skeptic or two

3220
02:01:14,550 --> 02:01:12,400
or not being stuck on stupid debates

3221
02:01:16,950 --> 02:01:14,560
it was pretty early because in those

3222
02:01:19,030 --> 02:01:16,960
first interviews i was able to kind of

3223
02:01:21,109 --> 02:01:19,040
get to the point where i could

3224
02:01:22,790 --> 02:01:21,119
directly confront these people with

3225
02:01:24,870 --> 02:01:22,800
you know you're interviewing steve

3226
02:01:27,830 --> 02:01:24,880
novella from yale university he's a

3227
02:01:29,430 --> 02:01:27,840
podcaster but he's also a neurosurgeon

3228
02:01:31,669 --> 02:01:29,440
or not a neurosurgeon what is he

3229
02:01:33,350 --> 02:01:31,679
neurologist neurologist at yale

3230
02:01:35,750 --> 02:01:33,360
university and he's

3231
02:01:37,589 --> 02:01:35,760
screwing the data he's screwing it up

3232
02:01:39,030 --> 02:01:37,599
he's not i'm giving him the data and

3233
02:01:40,629 --> 02:01:39,040
then he messes it up i go you messed it

3234
02:01:43,030 --> 02:01:40,639
up he goes oh yeah i did mess that up

3235
02:01:45,830 --> 02:01:43,040
i'm sorry and he's got skeptic ray hyman

3236
02:01:48,070 --> 02:01:45,840
on there from dr ray hyman from oregon

3237
02:01:49,350 --> 02:01:48,080
who has passed away but you know i

3238
02:01:51,270 --> 02:01:49,360
hadn't passed away we looked through his

3239
02:01:53,669 --> 02:01:51,280
files he was cia oh isn't that

3240
02:01:56,149 --> 02:01:53,679
interesting but it was i knew it was

3241
02:01:58,870 --> 02:01:56,159
[\h__\h] but here's the point that i

3242
02:02:02,310 --> 02:01:58,880
guess i accepted

3243
02:02:05,109 --> 02:02:02,320
uh what still a lot of people say when

3244
02:02:07,030 --> 02:02:05,119
you speak to them today which is you

3245
02:02:08,950 --> 02:02:07,040
know if i just had an interview with dr

3246
02:02:10,070 --> 02:02:08,960
bruce grayson and bruce grayson is

3247
02:02:12,229 --> 02:02:10,080
phenomenal

3248
02:02:15,430 --> 02:02:12,239
talk about standing on shoulders 40

3249
02:02:17,510 --> 02:02:15,440
years has been instrumental in advancing

3250
02:02:18,790 --> 02:02:17,520
near-death experience science but you

3251
02:02:19,830 --> 02:02:18,800
say hey

3252
02:02:22,470 --> 02:02:19,840
bruce

3253
02:02:25,910 --> 02:02:22,480
it's a [\h__\h] conspiracy what are you

3254
02:02:27,589 --> 02:02:25,920
talking about obviously this this is a

3255
02:02:29,830 --> 02:02:27,599
rigged game

3256
02:02:31,189 --> 02:02:29,840
because it's easier to control people if

3257
02:02:33,430 --> 02:02:31,199
they think our biological robot

3258
02:02:36,870 --> 02:02:33,440
meaningless universe so that's what is

3259
02:02:38,950 --> 02:02:36,880
the impediment to any real traction with

3260
02:02:40,629 --> 02:02:38,960
near-death experience science

3261
02:02:42,629 --> 02:02:40,639
that he wouldn't go there

3262
02:02:44,470 --> 02:02:42,639
very very reluctant to go there and yes

3263
02:02:46,629 --> 02:02:44,480
he wouldn't go there he'll say you know

3264
02:02:48,709 --> 02:02:46,639
he goes to one funeral at a time thing

3265
02:02:50,149 --> 02:02:48,719
he goes no how does he explain how does

3266
02:02:51,910 --> 02:02:50,159
he uh he must know he's a

3267
02:02:54,070 --> 02:02:51,920
parapsychologist he must know it's a

3268
02:02:54,790 --> 02:02:54,080
rigged game so how does he rationalize

3269
02:03:04,390 --> 02:02:54,800
it

3270
02:03:06,390 --> 02:03:04,400
come to understand

3271
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:06,400
that this is again you know your

3272
02:03:10,950 --> 02:03:07,360
mountain

3273
02:03:13,669 --> 02:03:10,960
metaphor is is analogy is perfect

3274
02:03:15,669 --> 02:03:13,679
because when you get into the conspiracy

3275
02:03:17,750 --> 02:03:15,679
stuff which we'll get into

3276
02:03:20,310 --> 02:03:17,760
it then goes a different level where

3277
02:03:22,629 --> 02:03:20,320
people go no no no no no that's not

3278
02:03:24,149 --> 02:03:22,639
that's not no no no no no no no no no

3279
02:03:25,510 --> 02:03:24,159
that's not the world i live in i don't

3280
02:03:27,750 --> 02:03:25,520
live in that world i don't live in that

3281
02:03:30,550 --> 02:03:27,760
world so when you tell

3282
02:03:33,030 --> 02:03:30,560
somebody like bruce grayson he

3283
02:03:35,350 --> 02:03:33,040
immediately runs the whole thing he goes

3284
02:03:37,910 --> 02:03:35,360
wait a minute you mean the guy that i

3285
02:03:40,629 --> 02:03:37,920
sit with at lunch who's been fear for 20

3286
02:03:43,109 --> 02:03:40,639
years he might it might be more than

3287
02:03:45,030 --> 02:03:43,119
just he's ah he's a rigid old guy that

3288
02:03:47,430 --> 02:03:45,040
won't change his beliefs it might be

3289
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:47,440
more than that it might be that he's

3290
02:03:52,390 --> 02:03:49,760
been somehow influenced or engineered to

3291
02:03:55,750 --> 02:03:52,400
think a particular way for a particular

3292
02:03:59,430 --> 02:03:55,760
reason to satisfy a particular agenda

3293
02:04:00,709 --> 02:03:59,440
yeah that is very very hard for the

3294
02:04:02,870 --> 02:04:00,719
scientist

3295
02:04:05,270 --> 02:04:02,880
to think of and it is a stockholm

3296
02:04:07,109 --> 02:04:05,280
syndrome kind of thing right stockholm

3297
02:04:09,189 --> 02:04:07,119
syndrome it's like

3298
02:04:11,669 --> 02:04:09,199
these are my friends and they just had

3299
02:04:13,510 --> 02:04:11,679
me over to a big celebration dinner like

3300
02:04:15,430 --> 02:04:13,520
the one we're having here and they gave

3301
02:04:17,189 --> 02:04:15,440
me an award and stuff like that now i'm

3302
02:04:19,270 --> 02:04:17,199
gonna go piss on them and say yeah but

3303
02:04:21,990 --> 02:04:19,280
you guys are liars and you deceive

3304
02:04:23,830 --> 02:04:22,000
people here and you did this i i can't i

3305
02:04:26,629 --> 02:04:23,840
i don't feel besides the fact that i'll

3306
02:04:28,310 --> 02:04:26,639
lose my job i mean i'll not only lose my

3307
02:04:29,910 --> 02:04:28,320
job i'll lose my prestige i'll lose all

3308
02:04:30,709 --> 02:04:29,920
the positions

3309
02:04:34,310 --> 02:04:30,719
but

3310
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:34,320
beginning you were very

3311
02:04:39,589 --> 02:04:37,920
um respectful of them in in terms of i

3312
02:04:41,589 --> 02:04:39,599
mean you're always respectful when you

3313
02:04:42,470 --> 02:04:41,599
talk with people too but i mean like you

3314
02:04:44,390 --> 02:04:42,480
were

3315
02:04:46,310 --> 02:04:44,400
really thinking that

3316
02:04:47,990 --> 02:04:46,320
they had something to say and you wanted

3317
02:04:49,189 --> 02:04:48,000
to listen you wanted to give them a

3318
02:04:51,990 --> 02:04:49,199
chance

3319
02:04:55,669 --> 02:04:52,000
so you didn't start out debunking

3320
02:04:59,430 --> 02:04:55,679
scientism but you quickly realized uh

3321
02:05:01,589 --> 02:04:59,440
that it's not uh 50 50. it's actually

3322
02:05:04,069 --> 02:05:01,599
one side is right the other wrong which

3323
02:05:05,510 --> 02:05:04,079
sometimes happens right and then the

3324
02:05:07,430 --> 02:05:05,520
other thing the other thing and i think

3325
02:05:08,870 --> 02:05:07,440
you you just hit on it before with what

3326
02:05:10,709 --> 02:05:08,880
you said i mean

3327
02:05:13,270 --> 02:05:10,719
i i did really think it was about the

3328
02:05:15,270 --> 02:05:13,280
data yeah so from again from my business

3329
02:05:17,830 --> 02:05:15,280
standpoint you know you realize

3330
02:05:19,830 --> 02:05:17,840
some people like um heineken and some

3331
02:05:22,229 --> 02:05:19,840
people don't like heineken some people

3332
02:05:23,030 --> 02:05:22,239
like amstel which is also made by hank

3333
02:05:24,950 --> 02:05:23,040
but

3334
02:05:26,790 --> 02:05:24,960
you know that's that's the way that it

3335
02:05:28,790 --> 02:05:26,800
is and you can't get in there and say

3336
02:05:30,470 --> 02:05:28,800
gee you know what's wrong with you for

3337
02:05:31,669 --> 02:05:30,480
not liking heineken beer you know what i

3338
02:05:33,910 --> 02:05:31,679
mean so

3339
02:05:35,910 --> 02:05:33,920
there are differences that people have

3340
02:05:38,470 --> 02:05:35,920
and i thought fundamentally if it's

3341
02:05:40,310 --> 02:05:38,480
about the data then i'll dance the dance

3342
02:05:42,149 --> 02:05:40,320
you know and we'll i'll listen to your

3343
02:05:43,910 --> 02:05:42,159
points and we'll go through this and

3344
02:05:45,510 --> 02:05:43,920
it'll be about the data and we'll sort

3345
02:05:47,750 --> 02:05:45,520
it out and that's what science is about

3346
02:05:48,709 --> 02:05:47,760
so that went on for quite a while

3347
02:05:51,189 --> 02:05:48,719
because

3348
02:05:53,030 --> 02:05:51,199
again what's looming here in this story

3349
02:05:55,990 --> 02:05:53,040
that we're telling is i didn't

3350
02:05:58,229 --> 02:05:56,000
understand conspiracy i was not open to

3351
02:05:59,990 --> 02:05:58,239
that at all i didn't believe any

3352
02:06:02,310 --> 02:06:00,000
conspiracies i thought they were all

3353
02:06:04,149 --> 02:06:02,320
bunk which is what most people thought

3354
02:06:06,629 --> 02:06:04,159
up until a couple of years ago you got

3355
02:06:08,870 --> 02:06:06,639
it with the pandemic and now everyone's

3356
02:06:10,550 --> 02:06:08,880
like well even even before

3357
02:06:12,069 --> 02:06:10,560
like i said like i said to mark

3358
02:06:13,990 --> 02:06:12,079
yesterday i said to him you know what's

3359
02:06:16,229 --> 02:06:14,000
the difference between reality and

3360
02:06:18,709 --> 02:06:16,239
conspiracy theory let's see if you he he

3361
02:06:20,069 --> 02:06:18,719
knew the answer what's the answer

3362
02:06:24,629 --> 02:06:20,079
i don't know

3363
02:06:30,790 --> 02:06:28,229
so right but my point is just you you

3364
02:06:33,270 --> 02:06:30,800
realized that one side is wrong one is

3365
02:06:35,910 --> 02:06:33,280
right you realize consciousness is key

3366
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:35,920
you realize scientism is bonk and isn't

3367
02:06:40,709 --> 02:06:38,320
that really right it's not really

3368
02:06:41,589 --> 02:06:40,719
when we enter skeptic or 2-0

3369
02:06:44,069 --> 02:06:41,599
yes

3370
02:06:46,550 --> 02:06:44,079
because then you went off on a

3371
02:06:48,069 --> 02:06:46,560
surfing of topics like near death

3372
02:06:49,910 --> 02:06:48,079
experience i mean

3373
02:06:52,310 --> 02:06:49,920
like you said in the former clip you

3374
02:06:53,350 --> 02:06:52,320
sometimes revisit old topics and that's

3375
02:06:55,589 --> 02:06:53,360
great

3376
02:06:56,950 --> 02:06:55,599
so even today you you will still have

3377
02:06:59,990 --> 02:06:56,960
skeptics on

3378
02:07:02,149 --> 02:07:00,000
if it fits the the the whatever you're

3379
02:07:03,350 --> 02:07:02,159
doing and they are willing that's one of

3380
02:07:05,109 --> 02:07:03,360
the problems they're they're running

3381
02:07:06,310 --> 02:07:05,119
away they won't get on they won't

3382
02:07:09,350 --> 02:07:06,320
absolutely

3383
02:07:11,910 --> 02:07:09,360
yeah to emphasize that point i i seek

3384
02:07:13,910 --> 02:07:11,920
them out i mean and it's harder now

3385
02:07:16,790 --> 02:07:13,920
because it's even harder people

3386
02:07:18,229 --> 02:07:16,800
the whole environment

3387
02:07:19,589 --> 02:07:18,239
the environment has changed you know

3388
02:07:21,830 --> 02:07:19,599
yeah i used to get accused of

3389
02:07:23,510 --> 02:07:21,840
sandbagging people because i'd reach out

3390
02:07:25,109 --> 02:07:23,520
to these skeptics and they would go no

3391
02:07:26,950 --> 02:07:25,119
further than researching the name

3392
02:07:28,310 --> 02:07:26,960
skeptico and they'd say this is going to

3393
02:07:30,550 --> 02:07:28,320
be a this is going to be an easy

3394
02:07:32,390 --> 02:07:30,560
interview and they'd come on and i

3395
02:07:34,470 --> 02:07:32,400
wasn't intentionally trying to sandbag

3396
02:07:36,709 --> 02:07:34,480
them no it's their own laziness it's

3397
02:07:38,390 --> 02:07:36,719
intellectualization exactly if you're

3398
02:07:39,990 --> 02:07:38,400
not if you're not able to do that but i

3399
02:07:42,069 --> 02:07:40,000
did score a lot of interviews with

3400
02:07:44,229 --> 02:07:42,079
people who would normally not

3401
02:07:47,510 --> 02:07:44,239
engage in and that was the reason for it

3402
02:07:49,510 --> 02:07:47,520
but i i i constantly you know reach out

3403
02:07:50,629 --> 02:07:49,520
to people who have an opposing view and

3404
02:07:52,229 --> 02:07:50,639
try and get them on the show and it's

3405
02:07:54,069 --> 02:07:52,239
sometimes successful but are you going

3406
02:07:55,430 --> 02:07:54,079
to talk about patricia churchlin and ben

3407
02:07:58,790 --> 02:07:55,440
radford

3408
02:08:01,109 --> 02:07:58,800
um ben is going to be mentioned by you

3409
02:08:03,589 --> 02:08:01,119
very briefly and

3410
02:08:05,589 --> 02:08:03,599
i i like you know this is going to be a

3411
02:08:07,830 --> 02:08:05,599
foreign borealis show too not just a

3412
02:08:10,870 --> 02:08:07,840
skeptical show and usually i have like

3413
02:08:12,950 --> 02:08:10,880
at the end of forum borealis i rant but

3414
02:08:14,629 --> 02:08:12,960
at the end of this show today i'm going

3415
02:08:16,149 --> 02:08:14,639
to just play a

3416
02:08:19,109 --> 02:08:16,159
meshed

3417
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:19,119
slimmed version of your clip called five

3418
02:08:23,030 --> 02:08:20,639
things you should know about skeptical

3419
02:08:25,430 --> 02:08:23,040
because that's those five things

3420
02:08:26,950 --> 02:08:25,440
is what is valid today and there i think

3421
02:08:29,430 --> 02:08:26,960
you mentioned briefly ben but you can

3422
02:08:32,550 --> 02:08:29,440
you can remind us what was the church

3423
02:08:36,229 --> 02:08:32,560
thing about i gotta tell this i gotta

3424
02:08:38,870 --> 02:08:36,239
tell this story because it's so much uh

3425
02:08:41,350 --> 02:08:38,880
in in my mind and it was one of those

3426
02:08:43,350 --> 02:08:41,360
that really did kind of

3427
02:08:45,830 --> 02:08:43,360
i don't know it did change things in

3428
02:08:47,350 --> 02:08:45,840
terms of i got a lot of

3429
02:08:49,669 --> 02:08:47,360
a lot of people from a lot of different

3430
02:08:52,470 --> 02:08:49,679
places contacted me after this show and

3431
02:08:54,790 --> 02:08:52,480
it it did make a certain impact you know

3432
02:08:55,589 --> 02:08:54,800
so patricia churchlin

3433
02:08:58,069 --> 02:08:55,599
is

3434
02:09:01,669 --> 02:08:58,079
a com very very well known and highly

3435
02:09:04,229 --> 02:09:01,679
regarded in academia for this kind of

3436
02:09:06,470 --> 02:09:04,239
what she called neural philosophy and

3437
02:09:07,990 --> 02:09:06,480
it's kind of this blending of religion

3438
02:09:08,790 --> 02:09:08,000
and neurology and all the rest of this

3439
02:09:11,350 --> 02:09:08,800
stuff

3440
02:09:12,550 --> 02:09:11,360
and she was an academic which also leads

3441
02:09:14,870 --> 02:09:12,560
to other point you know so i was talking

3442
02:09:16,470 --> 02:09:14,880
to skeptics people who are just skeptics

3443
02:09:18,870 --> 02:09:16,480
like we'll talk about ben radford just

3444
02:09:19,910 --> 02:09:18,880
all right for skeptic magazine yeah

3445
02:09:21,430 --> 02:09:19,920
but then i was talking to a lot of

3446
02:09:22,790 --> 02:09:21,440
academics like steve novella is not a

3447
02:09:24,709 --> 02:09:22,800
he's a skeptic but he's not really a

3448
02:09:25,750 --> 02:09:24,719
skeptic he's a

3449
02:09:27,990 --> 02:09:25,760
yale

3450
02:09:28,790 --> 02:09:28,000
neurologist i mean you can't that's

3451
02:09:29,750 --> 02:09:28,800
that's

3452
02:09:34,149 --> 02:09:29,760
pretty

3453
02:09:35,669 --> 02:09:34,159
churchlin is at ucsd university

3454
02:09:37,270 --> 02:09:35,679
california san diego highly respected

3455
02:09:39,669 --> 02:09:37,280
school where she was at the time and

3456
02:09:42,149 --> 02:09:39,679
she's doing this neural philosophy thing

3457
02:09:43,750 --> 02:09:42,159
anyways i always remember this

3458
02:09:45,189 --> 02:09:43,760
so i called her up and you know i was

3459
02:09:46,310 --> 02:09:45,199
cordial at the beginning she agreed to

3460
02:09:48,069 --> 02:09:46,320
come out she didn't know what was going

3461
02:09:50,550 --> 02:09:48,079
to hit her oh

3462
02:09:51,669 --> 02:09:50,560
i know the show you're talking about

3463
02:09:53,589 --> 02:09:51,679
oh

3464
02:09:56,229 --> 02:09:53,599
people you need to look it up go on go

3465
02:09:57,910 --> 02:09:56,239
on so she she just is really kind of had

3466
02:09:59,589 --> 02:09:57,920
a high and mighty kind of thing which

3467
02:10:01,189 --> 02:09:59,599
kind of irked me so i kind of just was

3468
02:10:03,189 --> 02:10:01,199
very direct with her i wasn't at all

3469
02:10:04,390 --> 02:10:03,199
unpleasant or unprofessional but i just

3470
02:10:06,709 --> 02:10:04,400
said

3471
02:10:09,350 --> 02:10:06,719
but you know you've quoted uh dr

3472
02:10:11,030 --> 02:10:09,360
pinvallamal this noted cardiologist from

3473
02:10:12,310 --> 02:10:11,040
the netherlands who had published a very

3474
02:10:14,390 --> 02:10:12,320
groundbreaking book on near-death

3475
02:10:15,750 --> 02:10:14,400
experience 20 years and he'd done all

3476
02:10:17,109 --> 02:10:15,760
this research published in many

3477
02:10:18,790 --> 02:10:17,119
peer-reviewed papers i said you've

3478
02:10:21,589 --> 02:10:18,800
misquoted him

3479
02:10:25,189 --> 02:10:21,599
and she goes oh really and she crumbles

3480
02:10:26,629 --> 02:10:25,199
she totally fakes and she goes

3481
02:10:28,310 --> 02:10:26,639
is this total

3482
02:10:29,830 --> 02:10:28,320
i go yeah i can read you the quote if

3483
02:10:31,990 --> 02:10:29,840
you like and i can read you what he said

3484
02:10:33,990 --> 02:10:32,000
after it she goes oh

3485
02:10:36,069 --> 02:10:34,000
and then she hangs up

3486
02:10:39,990 --> 02:10:36,079
so

3487
02:10:42,229 --> 02:10:40,000
i call her background what do you do

3488
02:10:44,069 --> 02:10:42,239
what do you do i mean these people they

3489
02:10:45,830 --> 02:10:44,079
they are dumb in a certain way like from

3490
02:10:47,669 --> 02:10:45,840
a business standpoint you just learn

3491
02:10:50,950 --> 02:10:47,679
this [\h__\h] and stuff like that like you

3492
02:10:53,109 --> 02:10:50,960
admit that nerds you in that situation

3493
02:10:54,550 --> 02:10:53,119
if you've messed up your deal and then

3494
02:10:56,069 --> 02:10:54,560
somebody and you hang up on the guy and

3495
02:10:58,310 --> 02:10:56,079
he calls you back you don't answer the

3496
02:10:59,030 --> 02:10:58,320
freaking phone no no she answers the

3497
02:11:00,790 --> 02:10:59,040
phone

3498
02:11:02,109 --> 02:11:00,800
certainly you don't pretend that you

3499
02:11:03,910 --> 02:11:02,119
didn't hang up

3500
02:11:06,870 --> 02:11:03,920
exactly

3501
02:11:08,709 --> 02:11:06,880
she answers the phone and pretends like

3502
02:11:11,030 --> 02:11:08,719
she didn't hang up and i think she

3503
02:11:12,629 --> 02:11:11,040
thinks that i'm gonna like just move on

3504
02:11:15,270 --> 02:11:12,639
i go okay well let's get back to that

3505
02:11:17,750 --> 02:11:15,280
quote that you misquoted in your book

3506
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:17,760
and she hangs up again

3507
02:11:21,589 --> 02:11:19,679
and i called her a third time and she

3508
02:11:23,030 --> 02:11:21,599
did she answered and then she kind of

3509
02:11:25,270 --> 02:11:23,040
just wormed her way out of the interview

3510
02:11:26,709 --> 02:11:25,280
but yeah it was amazing to listen to it

3511
02:11:29,270 --> 02:11:26,719
because

3512
02:11:31,830 --> 02:11:29,280
don't they care about well i i think and

3513
02:11:33,750 --> 02:11:31,840
how they are perceived the believability

3514
02:11:35,350 --> 02:11:33,760
i think i think that you know when you

3515
02:11:36,950 --> 02:11:35,360
said there's this there was this

3516
02:11:38,950 --> 02:11:36,960
spectrum of people out there and you did

3517
02:11:40,950 --> 02:11:38,960
a good job of my remembering of how it

3518
02:11:42,550 --> 02:11:40,960
was in terms of people all over the

3519
02:11:44,790 --> 02:11:42,560
board in terms of you know

3520
02:11:47,350 --> 02:11:44,800
parapsychology and kind of doubting is

3521
02:11:50,390 --> 02:11:47,360
this the whole you know proposition that

3522
02:11:53,589 --> 02:11:50,400
we're talking about here of is science

3523
02:11:55,990 --> 02:11:53,599
fundamentally uh dogmatic in a way that

3524
02:11:57,510 --> 02:11:56,000
it shouldn't be it's not wrestling with

3525
02:12:00,229 --> 02:11:57,520
the data that was really an open

3526
02:12:03,350 --> 02:12:00,239
question and when people were confronted

3527
02:12:06,790 --> 02:12:03,360
by patricia churchlin this kind of noted

3528
02:12:10,149 --> 02:12:06,800
academic completely crumbling when she's

3529
02:12:11,830 --> 02:12:10,159
confronted directly with the question

3530
02:12:13,350 --> 02:12:11,840
i think it caused a lot of people to

3531
02:12:16,149 --> 02:12:13,360
hesitate and go

3532
02:12:19,830 --> 02:12:16,159
wow i really i really am standing on

3533
02:12:22,629 --> 02:12:19,840
very shaky ground when i yeah when i

3534
02:12:24,870 --> 02:12:22,639
advanced this position susan blackmore

3535
02:12:28,229 --> 02:12:24,880
it was kind of more intelligent because

3536
02:12:30,069 --> 02:12:28,239
what she did she too crumbled but she

3537
02:12:32,870 --> 02:12:30,079
would like pretended

3538
02:12:35,030 --> 02:12:32,880
that the attitude she met you with is

3539
02:12:36,390 --> 02:12:35,040
her default attitude she was like no no

3540
02:12:37,990 --> 02:12:36,400
i never said that no she was running

3541
02:12:41,350 --> 02:12:38,000
away from the person no no i don't know

3542
02:12:43,990 --> 02:12:41,360
anything yeah yeah so she tried to uh

3543
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:44,000
grasp desperately onto her academic

3544
02:12:47,830 --> 02:12:45,280
integrity

3545
02:12:49,910 --> 02:12:47,840
so you couldn't bust her because she was

3546
02:12:52,390 --> 02:12:49,920
she was unbustable because she she

3547
02:12:54,550 --> 02:12:52,400
yielded all claims and all but of course

3548
02:12:56,149 --> 02:12:54,560
as soon as she's out of there and she

3549
02:12:58,950 --> 02:12:56,159
goes on one of these

3550
02:13:00,069 --> 02:12:58,960
pro skeptic shows then she's right back

3551
02:13:05,430 --> 02:13:00,079
to

3552
02:13:07,270 --> 02:13:05,440
attitude that's what i busted around

3553
02:13:10,709 --> 02:13:07,280
that's what i busted on and i think it

3554
02:13:13,109 --> 02:13:10,719
was very effective it's because that is

3555
02:13:14,950 --> 02:13:13,119
incredibly deceptive to come on and say

3556
02:13:16,390 --> 02:13:14,960
well you know where i pushed her on on

3557
02:13:18,229 --> 02:13:16,400
that is to say

3558
02:13:19,830 --> 02:13:18,239
uh

3559
02:13:21,830 --> 02:13:19,840
that i said are you aware of this

3560
02:13:23,750 --> 02:13:21,840
research and it was the research of dr

3561
02:13:26,390 --> 02:13:23,760
jeffrey long and she goes to be honest

3562
02:13:28,629 --> 02:13:26,400
with you i haven't stayed up to date on

3563
02:13:31,430 --> 02:13:28,639
that research enough to comment on it

3564
02:13:32,709 --> 02:13:31,440
which is like a a pseudo-real answer

3565
02:13:35,189 --> 02:13:32,719
like you'd hear that from a scientist

3566
02:13:36,950 --> 02:13:35,199
you go wow that person's legit you know

3567
02:13:38,870 --> 02:13:36,960
it was a gift to you though because you

3568
02:13:40,950 --> 02:13:38,880
could hit that in the head with every

3569
02:13:44,069 --> 02:13:40,960
other skeptic after that who tried to

3570
02:13:45,750 --> 02:13:44,079
use her as an out to do well i could

3571
02:13:47,669 --> 02:13:45,760
also i could also hit her with her

3572
02:13:49,830 --> 02:13:47,679
because six months later she was out

3573
02:13:51,350 --> 02:13:49,840
doing her same powerpoint presentation

3574
02:13:53,270 --> 02:13:51,360
on how

3575
02:13:55,669 --> 02:13:53,280
near-death experience was easily

3576
02:13:57,589 --> 02:13:55,679
debunked by this and that so she had

3577
02:13:59,430 --> 02:13:57,599
directly contradicted herself in a

3578
02:14:02,229 --> 02:13:59,440
fundamental way so

3579
02:14:04,390 --> 02:14:02,239
yeah it's yeah yeah there were a lot of

3580
02:14:07,030 --> 02:14:04,400
a lot of good ones there

3581
02:14:08,470 --> 02:14:07,040
way back but it was a different

3582
02:14:10,229 --> 02:14:08,480
it's a different time back when i

3583
02:14:11,750 --> 02:14:10,239
thought that there was a realness to

3584
02:14:14,950 --> 02:14:11,760
that and also i often wondered about

3585
02:14:16,550 --> 02:14:14,960
susan blackmore in terms of

3586
02:14:18,470 --> 02:14:16,560
you know because you mentioned the word

3587
02:14:20,870 --> 02:14:18,480
useful idiot and i think that it's

3588
02:14:22,550 --> 02:14:20,880
really important my friend joseph atwell

3589
02:14:24,550 --> 02:14:22,560
has done a great job of this over the

3590
02:14:25,669 --> 02:14:24,560
years talking about there's the lifetime

3591
02:14:32,550 --> 02:14:25,679
player

3592
02:14:33,830 --> 02:14:32,560
is the glorious steinham which we

3593
02:14:37,030 --> 02:14:33,840
reference you know

3594
02:14:38,629 --> 02:14:37,040
she was recruited into cia or or maybe

3595
02:14:40,870 --> 02:14:38,639
even jeffrey epstein you know now they

3596
02:14:41,830 --> 02:14:40,880
have the we've come out and said you

3597
02:14:44,470 --> 02:14:41,840
know the

3598
02:14:46,790 --> 02:14:44,480
uh gifted child kind of thing maybe

3599
02:14:48,709 --> 02:14:46,800
groomed from a super young age you know

3600
02:14:50,629 --> 02:14:48,719
all that stuff is like a whole different

3601
02:14:52,229 --> 02:14:50,639
level of this stuff and i'm not saying

3602
02:14:54,550 --> 02:14:52,239
that susan blackburn but i'm saying

3603
02:14:57,270 --> 02:14:54,560
there's a range of people who are

3604
02:14:59,350 --> 02:14:57,280
groomed for this kind of role that is

3605
02:15:00,950 --> 02:14:59,360
going to be manipulated and then there's

3606
02:15:02,870 --> 02:15:00,960
that's the lifetime player then there's

3607
02:15:05,910 --> 02:15:02,880
the part-time player it's like hey i

3608
02:15:07,669 --> 02:15:05,920
need this op i need this thing done you

3609
02:15:09,270 --> 02:15:07,679
know and maybe it's a james randy

3610
02:15:11,030 --> 02:15:09,280
stumbles into the police station because

3611
02:15:12,550 --> 02:15:11,040
they caught him i was always thinking

3612
02:15:15,430 --> 02:15:12,560
yeah

3613
02:15:18,229 --> 02:15:15,440
exactly they caught him making illicit

3614
02:15:21,350 --> 02:15:18,239
phone calls with underage kids underage

3615
02:15:22,629 --> 02:15:21,360
boys which they did and they got them

3616
02:15:25,109 --> 02:15:22,639
they put them in the room and they go

3617
02:15:26,950 --> 02:15:25,119
pal you're going to

3618
02:15:28,550 --> 02:15:26,960
place where you don't want to go because

3619
02:15:30,470 --> 02:15:28,560
i tell you what they do with pedophiles

3620
02:15:32,390 --> 02:15:30,480
in that place and he just goes oh what

3621
02:15:33,510 --> 02:15:32,400
do you want they go okay i'll tell you

3622
02:15:35,990 --> 02:15:33,520
what you want

3623
02:15:38,790 --> 02:15:36,000
when we call you answer when we tell you

3624
02:15:40,390 --> 02:15:38,800
what to do you do it so

3625
02:15:42,069 --> 02:15:40,400
is that i'm not saying i don't know if

3626
02:15:44,629 --> 02:15:42,079
any of that's true i just know you can

3627
02:15:46,069 --> 02:15:44,639
go listen to the tapes with james randy

3628
02:15:47,669 --> 02:15:46,079
you can draw your own conclusion but

3629
02:15:49,910 --> 02:15:47,679
here's just an example anyway we got

3630
02:15:51,830 --> 02:15:49,920
your points blackmore that's the

3631
02:15:52,790 --> 02:15:51,840
part-time player but then where i was

3632
02:15:53,750 --> 02:15:52,800
really trying to go so there's a

3633
02:15:56,629 --> 02:15:53,760
part-time player and then there's the

3634
02:15:58,870 --> 02:15:56,639
useful idiot yeah you know which for our

3635
02:16:01,030 --> 02:15:58,880
best guess is i hate to say it but dr

3636
02:16:03,030 --> 02:16:01,040
patricia churchill she doesn't she

3637
02:16:04,950 --> 02:16:03,040
doesn't he's even aware that she's

3638
02:16:06,870 --> 02:16:04,960
spewing out such nonsense that is

3639
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:06,880
completely in line with

3640
02:16:11,669 --> 02:16:09,360
some party line that someone has

3641
02:16:13,270 --> 02:16:11,679
decided is the you're a biological

3642
02:16:15,430 --> 02:16:13,280
meaningless universe

3643
02:16:17,589 --> 02:16:15,440
paradigm she doesn't even understand

3644
02:16:18,470 --> 02:16:17,599
that she's propping that up she just is

3645
02:16:21,510 --> 02:16:18,480
by

3646
02:16:23,669 --> 02:16:21,520
her default yes yeah and and this isn't

3647
02:16:25,910 --> 02:16:23,679
even speculation it's this exact same

3648
02:16:28,950 --> 02:16:25,920
playbook going on in mainstream media

3649
02:16:31,510 --> 02:16:28,960
you know manufacturing consent i believe

3650
02:16:33,110 --> 02:16:31,520
is the title of the book of

3651
02:16:35,910 --> 02:16:33,120
mr

3652
02:16:38,070 --> 02:16:35,920
which is called the darling of the left

3653
02:16:39,270 --> 02:16:38,080
lingual professor

3654
02:16:41,830 --> 02:16:39,280
um

3655
02:16:44,950 --> 02:16:41,840
very old jewish american guy what's his

3656
02:16:46,629 --> 02:16:44,960
name it's not soros is it no

3657
02:16:50,070 --> 02:16:46,639
he's a oligarch i'm talking about an

3658
02:16:52,070 --> 02:16:50,080
academic manufacturing consensus book

3659
02:16:54,230 --> 02:16:52,080
consent or dissent consent of

3660
02:16:56,709 --> 02:16:54,240
manufacturing consent yeah

3661
02:16:58,950 --> 02:16:56,719
that's what the media does he revealed

3662
02:17:01,589 --> 02:16:58,960
and right did you get his name oh yeah

3663
02:17:03,190 --> 02:17:01,599
chomsky noam chomsky so he

3664
02:17:06,070 --> 02:17:03,200
he he revealed the whole playbook it

3665
02:17:08,790 --> 02:17:06,080
works like this if you are a [\h__\h] with

3666
02:17:11,669 --> 02:17:08,800
the with the wrong ideas

3667
02:17:14,549 --> 02:17:11,679
then you are an employee

3668
02:17:15,750 --> 02:17:14,559
with the right ideas so so i will hire

3669
02:17:17,750 --> 02:17:15,760
that guy

3670
02:17:19,429 --> 02:17:17,760
out of journalism school or whatever

3671
02:17:22,070 --> 02:17:19,439
because he has the right attitude the

3672
02:17:25,030 --> 02:17:22,080
right ideas and i'll sponsor so it's not

3673
02:17:27,270 --> 02:17:25,040
like i'm telling every newscaster you're

3674
02:17:30,070 --> 02:17:27,280
in on a huge conspiracy here okay you

3675
02:17:31,349 --> 02:17:30,080
have to no no he just yeah i'm here for

3676
02:17:33,349 --> 02:17:31,359
my career

3677
02:17:35,429 --> 02:17:33,359
and yeah okay these are the talking

3678
02:17:37,750 --> 02:17:35,439
points for today okay let's go and he

3679
02:17:40,150 --> 02:17:37,760
believes he's free to do and say what he

3680
02:17:42,469 --> 02:17:40,160
wants because whatever he says is going

3681
02:17:43,509 --> 02:17:42,479
to be exactly the narrative

3682
02:17:47,270 --> 02:17:43,519
that

3683
02:17:48,870 --> 02:17:47,280
in this case let's say the owner of fox

3684
02:17:51,990 --> 02:17:48,880
news so cnn

3685
02:17:52,790 --> 02:17:52,000
wants him to say so so the conspiracy

3686
02:17:55,910 --> 02:17:52,800
here

3687
02:17:58,150 --> 02:17:55,920
is is actually just our little segment a

3688
02:18:00,790 --> 02:17:58,160
little fragment of the whole kind of

3689
02:18:02,709 --> 02:18:00,800
game if you see what i mean well so i

3690
02:18:04,469 --> 02:18:02,719
like that thing lifetime player

3691
02:18:07,110 --> 02:18:04,479
part-time player and useful idiots and

3692
02:18:08,950 --> 02:18:07,120
i'll say most of them are useful idiots

3693
02:18:10,389 --> 02:18:08,960
then the second biggest group is the

3694
02:18:13,110 --> 02:18:10,399
part-time players

3695
02:18:14,549 --> 02:18:13,120
the the blackmailing files and then

3696
02:18:17,990 --> 02:18:14,559
you have the

3697
02:18:20,309 --> 02:18:18,000
smallest but most essential group of of

3698
02:18:22,950 --> 02:18:20,319
full-time actors

3699
02:18:25,190 --> 02:18:22,960
we have to move on alex the next clip is

3700
02:18:28,469 --> 02:18:25,200
kind of in the same line my next clip is

3701
02:18:31,270 --> 02:18:28,479
just when skeptical 0.20 is consolidated

3702
02:18:34,309 --> 02:18:31,280
here you are debunking scientism

3703
02:18:36,389 --> 02:18:34,319
and explaining why consciousness is key

3704
02:18:37,990 --> 02:18:36,399
and that's a difference from what you

3705
02:18:41,429 --> 02:18:38,000
would do in the first hundred shows or

3706
02:18:42,549 --> 02:18:41,439
whatever now you had taken that journey

3707
02:18:47,190 --> 02:18:42,559
over

3708
02:18:50,629 --> 02:18:47,200
you you're taking a stand you're coming

3709
02:18:52,389 --> 02:18:50,639
clear out to saying what's what

3710
02:18:55,429 --> 02:18:52,399
one of the topics i think that has been

3711
02:18:58,549 --> 02:18:55,439
a recurring theme of the show is

3712
02:19:01,589 --> 02:18:58,559
how we communicate about these topics in

3713
02:19:03,509 --> 02:19:01,599
the court of public opinion if you will

3714
02:19:05,349 --> 02:19:03,519
and a lot of people will kind of have a

3715
02:19:06,870 --> 02:19:05,359
knee-jerk reaction when i mentioned god

3716
02:19:09,030 --> 02:19:06,880
or when i mentioned believer or when i

3717
02:19:11,110 --> 02:19:09,040
mentioned any of these things and

3718
02:19:13,429 --> 02:19:11,120
when i'm pressed like in the forum i'm

3719
02:19:15,750 --> 02:19:13,439
quick to acknowledge that i don't know

3720
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:15,760
what god means i don't i don't have any

3721
02:19:20,150 --> 02:19:18,240
specific idea of a guy in a beard or

3722
02:19:21,270 --> 02:19:20,160
anything like that but i'm using a

3723
02:19:23,349 --> 02:19:21,280
shorthand

3724
02:19:25,509 --> 02:19:23,359
reference to kind of shoehorn us into

3725
02:19:27,750 --> 02:19:25,519
the public debate i mean the big debate

3726
02:19:30,469 --> 02:19:27,760
is science versus religion whether we

3727
02:19:32,870 --> 02:19:30,479
like it or not that's what's out there

3728
02:19:35,750 --> 02:19:32,880
that's what's socially relevant in terms

3729
02:19:37,750 --> 02:19:35,760
of the discussion so in that sense okay

3730
02:19:40,389 --> 02:19:37,760
i'm a believer if you want to divide the

3731
02:19:42,790 --> 02:19:40,399
world into skeptics and believers i'll

3732
02:19:44,950 --> 02:19:42,800
gladly take the side of believer i don't

3733
02:19:47,270 --> 02:19:44,960
think that term means anything to me

3734
02:19:49,429 --> 02:19:47,280
other than it means if we're going to

3735
02:19:51,349 --> 02:19:49,439
engage in this dialogue and there has to

3736
02:19:53,990 --> 02:19:51,359
be sides this is the side i'll take for

3737
02:19:56,550 --> 02:19:54,000
purposes of this discussion scientific

3738
02:19:57,910 --> 02:19:56,560
materialism is a failure i mean it's a

3739
02:19:59,830 --> 02:19:57,920
failed proposition it was a good

3740
02:20:02,230 --> 02:19:59,840
proposition i think the evidence is

3741
02:20:04,550 --> 02:20:02,240
overwhelmingly suggestive that that just

3742
02:20:06,550 --> 02:20:04,560
doesn't hold up and i think with it

3743
02:20:09,270 --> 02:20:06,560
atheism falls

3744
02:20:13,190 --> 02:20:09,280
down the drain as well so i think those

3745
02:20:15,349 --> 02:20:13,200
propositions are falsified so yeah that

3746
02:20:18,230 --> 02:20:15,359
would push me to whatever other category

3747
02:20:20,550 --> 02:20:18,240
you want to call it you know i'm going

3748
02:20:23,429 --> 02:20:20,560
to be closer to that other side

3749
02:20:26,710 --> 02:20:23,439
i don't think the middle holds here i

3750
02:20:28,790 --> 02:20:26,720
don't think the oh i'm agnostic i just

3751
02:20:30,309 --> 02:20:28,800
have questions about this i don't think

3752
02:20:32,550 --> 02:20:30,319
it holds and the reason it doesn't hold

3753
02:20:33,750 --> 02:20:32,560
is because you have to make a decision

3754
02:20:35,830 --> 02:20:33,760
every day

3755
02:20:38,230 --> 02:20:35,840
in the way that you live your life we

3756
02:20:40,469 --> 02:20:38,240
live in a materialistic

3757
02:20:43,190 --> 02:20:40,479
world a materialistic economy in a

3758
02:20:44,630 --> 02:20:43,200
materialistic society that is the

3759
02:20:47,349 --> 02:20:44,640
predominant

3760
02:20:50,469 --> 02:20:47,359
worldview that's placed upon you if you

3761
02:20:53,110 --> 02:20:50,479
do nothing you are thereby embracing

3762
02:20:54,790 --> 02:20:53,120
materialism so you can't say i'm removed

3763
02:20:56,630 --> 02:20:54,800
from this discussion you're in the

3764
02:20:59,270 --> 02:20:56,640
middle of it you're the fish you're in

3765
02:21:02,230 --> 02:20:59,280
the water the water is all around you so

3766
02:21:05,030 --> 02:21:02,240
you can't say i'm agnostic

3767
02:21:07,270 --> 02:21:05,040
your life is your choice and i've had

3768
02:21:09,110 --> 02:21:07,280
numerous conversations along these lines

3769
02:21:11,510 --> 02:21:09,120
that the middle doesn't hold there

3770
02:21:13,510 --> 02:21:11,520
really isn't a middle ground life forces

3771
02:21:14,710 --> 02:21:13,520
us to choose one way or another you know

3772
02:21:18,150 --> 02:21:14,720
one of the things i've come to

3773
02:21:20,550 --> 02:21:18,160
appreciate about this biological robot

3774
02:21:22,870 --> 02:21:20,560
scientific materialism that i bash

3775
02:21:25,510 --> 02:21:22,880
repeatedly because it's so

3776
02:21:27,830 --> 02:21:25,520
strongly ingrained enmeshed in our

3777
02:21:30,550 --> 02:21:27,840
culture and yet it doesn't hold up and

3778
02:21:32,230 --> 02:21:30,560
that just kind of galls me from from a

3779
02:21:34,790 --> 02:21:32,240
critical thinking standpoint how can

3780
02:21:37,270 --> 02:21:34,800
something so wrong have such traction so

3781
02:21:38,469 --> 02:21:37,280
i'm always bashing it on the other hand

3782
02:21:41,030 --> 02:21:38,479
especially lately i've come to

3783
02:21:43,830 --> 02:21:41,040
appreciate how hard and difficult it is

3784
02:21:46,550 --> 02:21:43,840
to get beyond that and how reassuring it

3785
02:21:48,950 --> 02:21:46,560
is to fall back on the notion of

3786
02:21:51,910 --> 02:21:48,960
materialism i mean everything gets

3787
02:21:54,630 --> 02:21:51,920
really really fuzzy when you kind of go

3788
02:21:56,389 --> 02:21:54,640
into this post scientific materialism

3789
02:21:59,349 --> 02:21:56,399
realm and by that i mean

3790
02:22:02,150 --> 02:21:59,359
what is reality i mean if consciousness

3791
02:22:04,870 --> 02:22:02,160
is fundamental so right so this debate

3792
02:22:05,990 --> 02:22:04,880
of biological robots is that you know

3793
02:22:08,950 --> 02:22:06,000
you're just a robot you're just a

3794
02:22:10,389 --> 02:22:08,960
machine and the counter theory is that

3795
02:22:12,469 --> 02:22:10,399
in somehow in some way we don't

3796
02:22:16,070 --> 02:22:12,479
understand this thing of consciousness

3797
02:22:18,150 --> 02:22:16,080
this me this ghost inside the machine is

3798
02:22:20,469 --> 02:22:18,160
fundamental so matter isn't fundamental

3799
02:22:23,590 --> 02:22:20,479
consciousness is fundamental that's one

3800
02:22:26,870 --> 02:22:23,600
hypothesis well what does that really

3801
02:22:29,429 --> 02:22:26,880
mean it means that all these ideas of

3802
02:22:30,550 --> 02:22:29,439
measurement all these ideas of reality

3803
02:22:31,750 --> 02:22:30,560
if you will

3804
02:22:34,630 --> 02:22:31,760
are now

3805
02:22:37,270 --> 02:22:34,640
have to be put on hold so we can no

3806
02:22:40,309 --> 02:22:37,280
longer in that world talk about

3807
02:22:42,469 --> 02:22:40,319
reality or talk about our experience or

3808
02:22:44,950 --> 02:22:42,479
talk about things like time it all kind

3809
02:22:46,710 --> 02:22:44,960
of falls apart so in that sense what

3810
02:22:49,270 --> 02:22:46,720
i've said before and

3811
02:22:51,750 --> 02:22:49,280
and i think it holds is that hey i'm

3812
02:22:54,389 --> 02:22:51,760
going to play this little game with you

3813
02:22:56,389 --> 02:22:54,399
called consensus reality and we're going

3814
02:22:58,790 --> 02:22:56,399
to pretend that this desk that i'm

3815
02:23:00,590 --> 02:22:58,800
tapping on is real is solid even though

3816
02:23:02,150 --> 02:23:00,600
we know it's

3817
02:23:04,710 --> 02:23:02,160
99.99999

3818
02:23:06,710 --> 02:23:04,720
nothing it appears solid to me you can

3819
02:23:09,190 --> 02:23:06,720
see it i can see it we're going to call

3820
02:23:10,790 --> 02:23:09,200
this reality and in that same way we're

3821
02:23:12,389 --> 02:23:10,800
going to call all these things that we

3822
02:23:14,389 --> 02:23:12,399
debate about reality and we're going to

3823
02:23:15,990 --> 02:23:14,399
call skeptics on this and this and that

3824
02:23:17,670 --> 02:23:16,000
but at the same time while we're doing

3825
02:23:19,190 --> 02:23:17,680
that we have to acknowledge that that

3826
02:23:22,070 --> 02:23:19,200
might all be

3827
02:23:25,030 --> 02:23:22,080
just kind of a game if you will and

3828
02:23:27,349 --> 02:23:25,040
there may be a bigger larger

3829
02:23:29,590 --> 02:23:27,359
truth out there that we're not really

3830
02:23:31,750 --> 02:23:29,600
dealing with when we talk about things

3831
02:23:33,910 --> 02:23:31,760
in that way and that's pretty abstract

3832
02:23:35,750 --> 02:23:33,920
but i think you can see

3833
02:23:37,349 --> 02:23:35,760
where i'm going and why it's necessary

3834
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:37,359
to kind of talk out of both sides of

3835
02:23:41,830 --> 02:23:39,280
your mouth when you talk about

3836
02:23:44,830 --> 02:23:41,840
skeptics versus believers or scientism

3837
02:23:48,469 --> 02:23:44,840
or even scientific

3838
02:23:51,110 --> 02:23:48,479
evidence because when i look at the

3839
02:23:53,349 --> 02:23:51,120
shows lined up chronologically it's

3840
02:23:55,110 --> 02:23:53,359
pretty obvious that

3841
02:23:59,429 --> 02:23:55,120
in the beginning you're you're doing

3842
02:24:01,990 --> 02:23:59,439
this um both sides things and and slowly

3843
02:24:04,710 --> 02:24:02,000
but surely realizing what's what but at

3844
02:24:07,670 --> 02:24:04,720
this period in part two you're deep

3845
02:24:09,750 --> 02:24:07,680
diving into the consciousness is key

3846
02:24:12,150 --> 02:24:09,760
type of shows

3847
02:24:14,790 --> 02:24:12,160
so i i said that's the

3848
02:24:17,910 --> 02:24:14,800
hallmark of skeptical 2-0

3849
02:24:19,510 --> 02:24:17,920
that you left the old

3850
02:24:22,070 --> 02:24:19,520
uh i'm going to be

3851
02:24:25,270 --> 02:24:22,080
the judge of the debate here and and see

3852
02:24:26,950 --> 02:24:25,280
who's right now you're fully immersed

3853
02:24:29,190 --> 02:24:26,960
exploring

3854
02:24:30,790 --> 02:24:29,200
you've found truth on one side now

3855
02:24:33,349 --> 02:24:30,800
you're deep diving into that do you

3856
02:24:34,790 --> 02:24:33,359
agree with that description yes

3857
02:24:37,429 --> 02:24:34,800
yeah

3858
02:24:39,830 --> 02:24:37,439
i i want to ask you you mentioned that

3859
02:24:42,790 --> 02:24:39,840
someone started the forum we mentioned

3860
02:24:43,590 --> 02:24:42,800
this friend of yours who interviewed you

3861
02:24:46,230 --> 02:24:43,600
but

3862
02:24:48,870 --> 02:24:46,240
i i didn't get to ask you about the open

3863
02:24:51,349 --> 02:24:48,880
source science website

3864
02:24:53,190 --> 02:24:51,359
uh i sent you one but i don't think

3865
02:24:55,670 --> 02:24:53,200
that's the same one it looks weird the

3866
02:24:57,910 --> 02:24:55,680
one i sent you on telegram so if you

3867
02:24:59,670 --> 02:24:57,920
could explain briefly this open source

3868
02:25:01,750 --> 02:24:59,680
science thing open source science i

3869
02:25:03,110 --> 02:25:01,760
think we kind of covered before so i had

3870
02:25:06,150 --> 02:25:03,120
this idea

3871
02:25:08,309 --> 02:25:06,160
that there could be that experiments

3872
02:25:10,950 --> 02:25:08,319
could help this situation and that if we

3873
02:25:12,790 --> 02:25:10,960
threw more data at it oh okay so that's

3874
02:25:14,950 --> 02:25:12,800
the vehicle you did experiments through

3875
02:25:16,790 --> 02:25:14,960
exactly right right but didn't you

3876
02:25:18,469 --> 02:25:16,800
cooperate with someone there i kept

3877
02:25:19,670 --> 02:25:18,479
trying to pull people in

3878
02:25:22,309 --> 02:25:19,680
yeah

3879
02:25:24,790 --> 02:25:22,319
i've tried to pull so many people in

3880
02:25:27,349 --> 02:25:24,800
no you know annalisa van taller yeah

3881
02:25:29,270 --> 02:25:27,359
yeah yeah yeah i mean she's she's super

3882
02:25:29,990 --> 02:25:29,280
nice i haven't stayed in contact with

3883
02:25:31,510 --> 02:25:30,000
her

3884
02:25:33,190 --> 02:25:31,520
again this is kind of like did you did

3885
02:25:35,910 --> 02:25:33,200
you stay in contact with austin the

3886
02:25:37,510 --> 02:25:35,920
norwegian guy uh you know i've talked to

3887
02:25:39,190 --> 02:25:37,520
him now over the years just a couple

3888
02:25:40,870 --> 02:25:39,200
times i mean he went down a different

3889
02:25:43,510 --> 02:25:40,880
right he went down a different path but

3890
02:25:45,830 --> 02:25:43,520
uh yeah i talked to him at at one point

3891
02:25:47,910 --> 02:25:45,840
you know it's it's just funny

3892
02:25:50,150 --> 02:25:47,920
i mean this has been such an awesome

3893
02:25:51,510 --> 02:25:50,160
awesome part of my life and like i was

3894
02:25:54,710 --> 02:25:51,520
telling you about the forum i love that

3895
02:25:57,590 --> 02:25:54,720
people come in and then move out or

3896
02:25:59,270 --> 02:25:57,600
people come in and they're there because

3897
02:26:01,830 --> 02:25:59,280
i'd offer them a little bit of money to

3898
02:26:03,590 --> 02:26:01,840
go do something and then they moved out

3899
02:26:04,950 --> 02:26:03,600
or they weren't really that interested

3900
02:26:07,190 --> 02:26:04,960
or they didn't have to say you know i

3901
02:26:09,750 --> 02:26:07,200
mean i'm crazy about you know this kind

3902
02:26:11,190 --> 02:26:09,760
of so that all happens you know that's

3903
02:26:13,270 --> 02:26:11,200
so just

3904
02:26:15,510 --> 02:26:13,280
you know as far as shouting out i mean

3905
02:26:17,910 --> 02:26:15,520
the people that i am just

3906
02:26:21,590 --> 02:26:17,920
i'm just indebted to and i feel like

3907
02:26:23,110 --> 02:26:21,600
have just shaped me not just the show

3908
02:26:24,550 --> 02:26:23,120
it's shaped me because that's what it's

3909
02:26:26,870 --> 02:26:24,560
really all about are some of the

3910
02:26:28,870 --> 02:26:26,880
tremendous guests that i've had on you

3911
02:26:31,590 --> 02:26:28,880
know really really really did you have

3912
02:26:34,469 --> 02:26:31,600
like like you had some people who

3913
02:26:37,030 --> 02:26:34,479
i know one was a hosting

3914
02:26:39,830 --> 02:26:37,040
uh i mean even gordon has hosted a show

3915
02:26:41,830 --> 02:26:39,840
but do you have had guests offered i've

3916
02:26:43,750 --> 02:26:41,840
like yeah i mean

3917
02:26:45,670 --> 02:26:43,760
multiple people have guest hosted i love

3918
02:26:48,550 --> 02:26:45,680
for people to guest host i love for

3919
02:26:49,990 --> 02:26:48,560
people to get involved in reaching out

3920
02:26:51,990 --> 02:26:50,000
to people who might want to be on the

3921
02:26:53,349 --> 02:26:52,000
show but that was kind of later in the

3922
02:26:55,270 --> 02:26:53,359
game you know after you do it a few

3923
02:26:57,270 --> 02:26:55,280
hundred times you're like i want other

3924
02:27:00,230 --> 02:26:57,280
people to have that

3925
02:27:02,870 --> 02:27:00,240
to have that fun not that fun but that

3926
02:27:04,950 --> 02:27:02,880
feeling of wanting to know something and

3927
02:27:08,630 --> 02:27:04,960
then finding out that it's

3928
02:27:11,429 --> 02:27:08,640
somewhat knowable you know if you

3929
02:27:13,270 --> 02:27:11,439
if you go and you pursue the truth like

3930
02:27:15,349 --> 02:27:13,280
we're talking about

3931
02:27:18,550 --> 02:27:15,359
sometimes you find it and that's kind of

3932
02:27:21,590 --> 02:27:18,560
a real kind of thing so but anyways yeah

3933
02:27:23,990 --> 02:27:21,600
my buddy um from

3934
02:27:26,389 --> 02:27:24,000
down there in florida state has hosted a

3935
02:27:28,630 --> 02:27:26,399
couple of shows for me the guy who

3936
02:27:31,510 --> 02:27:28,640
interviewed for number 200

3937
02:27:34,790 --> 02:27:31,520
no no no uh this guy's he's a professor

3938
02:27:36,550 --> 02:27:34,800
dr rich grego is the guy who has done

3939
02:27:38,950 --> 02:27:36,560
multiple shows for me and was really

3940
02:27:40,790 --> 02:27:38,960
really helpful was he the guy who who

3941
02:27:43,030 --> 02:27:40,800
did the sherman thing with you

3942
02:27:45,190 --> 02:27:43,040
he really nailed sure i don't remember

3943
02:27:47,830 --> 02:27:45,200
that one i think it was show number

3944
02:27:49,990 --> 02:27:47,840
three or four very early oh no no it was

3945
02:27:51,670 --> 02:27:50,000
so weird because i was listening to it

3946
02:27:53,990 --> 02:27:51,680
you didn't say i mean

3947
02:27:56,630 --> 02:27:54,000
you were amateurs back then but from out

3948
02:27:59,030 --> 02:27:56,640
of nowhere an other voice started to ask

3949
02:28:00,469 --> 02:27:59,040
questions of shermer what the [\h__\h]

3950
02:28:02,230 --> 02:28:00,479
happened

3951
02:28:04,150 --> 02:28:02,240
different isn't it you know what i mean

3952
02:28:05,750 --> 02:28:04,160
yeah that was for him for a while and

3953
02:28:07,590 --> 02:28:05,760
then we forgot all about you and then

3954
02:28:08,469 --> 02:28:07,600
suddenly you came in at the end

3955
02:28:11,270 --> 02:28:08,479
so

3956
02:28:13,670 --> 02:28:11,280
that was a chap at least yeah yeah

3957
02:28:15,910 --> 02:28:13,680
yeah i guess um yeah is there anything

3958
02:28:19,030 --> 02:28:15,920
else to say about

3959
02:28:21,830 --> 02:28:19,040
the second period because

3960
02:28:24,070 --> 02:28:21,840
this guy you you made show 200 i think

3961
02:28:27,030 --> 02:28:24,080
already then you were moving on to

3962
02:28:29,349 --> 02:28:27,040
starting to move on to skeptical 3-0

3963
02:28:31,830 --> 02:28:29,359
not long after that but

3964
02:28:34,070 --> 02:28:31,840
that guy he did a very useful thing he

3965
02:28:36,230 --> 02:28:34,080
divided typical skeptics that like stuff

3966
02:28:39,510 --> 02:28:36,240
like this but he divided your show

3967
02:28:43,270 --> 02:28:39,520
systematically in percentages

3968
02:28:45,510 --> 02:28:43,280
and and the e's were 25 back then

3969
02:28:47,990 --> 02:28:45,520
because you did uh you were on a huge

3970
02:28:50,070 --> 02:28:48,000
wave in skeptical 2-0

3971
02:28:51,270 --> 02:28:50,080
anything to do with uh death yes not

3972
02:28:53,190 --> 02:28:51,280
just nde

3973
02:28:55,590 --> 02:28:53,200
and that's interesting right because you

3974
02:28:58,309 --> 02:28:55,600
start out and materialize more

3975
02:29:01,190 --> 02:28:58,319
spiritualism whatever and then

3976
02:29:03,110 --> 02:29:01,200
you know the next level at the mountain

3977
02:29:05,030 --> 02:29:03,120
is of course okay

3978
02:29:06,230 --> 02:29:05,040
we have to go to death because that's

3979
02:29:07,429 --> 02:29:06,240
the clue

3980
02:29:08,710 --> 02:29:07,439
that's the secret that's where

3981
02:29:09,510 --> 02:29:08,720
everything is

3982
02:29:11,990 --> 02:29:09,520
so

3983
02:29:15,270 --> 02:29:12,000
the death period is completely logical

3984
02:29:17,510 --> 02:29:15,280
as the next step of of uh truth-seeking

3985
02:29:19,429 --> 02:29:17,520
and consciousness consciousness is key

3986
02:29:21,030 --> 02:29:19,439
consciousness death reincarnation can i

3987
02:29:22,389 --> 02:29:21,040
can i interject something yeah yeah sure

3988
02:29:24,469 --> 02:29:22,399
i'm just good

3989
02:29:26,230 --> 02:29:24,479
i i love where you went with that but

3990
02:29:28,150 --> 02:29:26,240
you almost take it from

3991
02:29:29,750 --> 02:29:28,160
more of a kind of mystic

3992
02:29:31,830 --> 02:29:29,760
standpoint because i think that's your

3993
02:29:33,990 --> 02:29:31,840
background and that's your understanding

3994
02:29:36,790 --> 02:29:34,000
and i kind of come around full circle in

3995
02:29:39,990 --> 02:29:36,800
that i didn't exactly see it that way i

3996
02:29:43,910 --> 02:29:40,000
saw it as a as an extension of the

3997
02:29:46,389 --> 02:29:43,920
science so the science that dean raiden

3998
02:29:49,110 --> 02:29:46,399
was doing and rupert sheldrick was doing

3999
02:29:51,990 --> 02:29:49,120
was to me conclusive evidence that

4000
02:29:53,190 --> 02:29:52,000
materialism the proposition fails like i

4001
02:29:53,990 --> 02:29:53,200
said

4002
02:29:56,870 --> 02:29:54,000
but

4003
02:29:58,150 --> 02:29:56,880
it wasn't exactly penetrating like we're

4004
02:29:59,670 --> 02:29:58,160
saying you know it wasn't getting

4005
02:30:02,469 --> 02:29:59,680
through why isn't everyone else getting

4006
02:30:04,469 --> 02:30:02,479
the message getting the the newsletter

4007
02:30:05,990 --> 02:30:04,479
on that so i thought wait

4008
02:30:06,870 --> 02:30:06,000
this is really

4009
02:30:09,349 --> 02:30:06,880
more

4010
02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:09,359
of a way that's uh kind of indisputable

4011
02:30:14,710 --> 02:30:11,680
right so one of the pillars of

4012
02:30:16,710 --> 02:30:14,720
materialism is that consciousness is a

4013
02:30:19,750 --> 02:30:16,720
phenomenon of the brain so therefore

4014
02:30:21,990 --> 02:30:19,760
when you die consciousness must end here

4015
02:30:22,950 --> 02:30:22,000
are people coming back and again from a

4016
02:30:26,230 --> 02:30:22,960
medical

4017
02:30:28,790 --> 02:30:26,240
standpoint which is kind of interesting

4018
02:30:30,950 --> 02:30:28,800
because medicine kind of bypasses in a

4019
02:30:32,550 --> 02:30:30,960
way some of the science [\h__\h] and

4020
02:30:34,630 --> 02:30:32,560
just says hey you know

4021
02:30:36,630 --> 02:30:34,640
you live or you die you heal your arm or

4022
02:30:37,830 --> 02:30:36,640
you don't you know you so

4023
02:30:39,429 --> 02:30:37,840
they had a little bit of a different

4024
02:30:41,270 --> 02:30:39,439
perspective but they were directly

4025
02:30:44,230 --> 02:30:41,280
getting to this question and i saw it as

4026
02:30:46,870 --> 02:30:44,240
a more effective way of

4027
02:30:48,630 --> 02:30:46,880
really answering this question

4028
02:30:50,469 --> 02:30:48,640
in a convincing way that would convince

4029
02:30:52,389 --> 02:30:50,479
other people the circle back to the

4030
02:30:54,950 --> 02:30:52,399
mystic part i think

4031
02:30:57,670 --> 02:30:54,960
is that now i realize that

4032
02:31:00,550 --> 02:30:57,680
that's why the mystics focused on death

4033
02:31:02,550 --> 02:31:00,560
yeah that's why when you become a yogi

4034
02:31:04,469 --> 02:31:02,560
the first thing that you do is you go

4035
02:31:06,870 --> 02:31:04,479
look at the funeral pyre and you watch

4036
02:31:09,030 --> 02:31:06,880
the ashes and you meditate there for

4037
02:31:12,389 --> 02:31:09,040
days and days because eventually it gets

4038
02:31:13,190 --> 02:31:12,399
through to you that materialism is is

4039
02:31:15,910 --> 02:31:13,200
just

4040
02:31:18,630 --> 02:31:15,920
a joke i i i'm not my body et cetera i

4041
02:31:21,429 --> 02:31:18,640
mean not my feelings but yeah yeah no

4042
02:31:23,830 --> 02:31:21,439
totally that's that was your focus your

4043
02:31:26,070 --> 02:31:23,840
perspective but i'm just seeing it in

4044
02:31:29,030 --> 02:31:26,080
bird's perspective that is so natural

4045
02:31:30,790 --> 02:31:29,040
that the next step is to explore

4046
02:31:33,270 --> 02:31:30,800
and when you explore all that stuff

4047
02:31:36,070 --> 02:31:33,280
obviously that will because you look

4048
02:31:38,790 --> 02:31:36,080
whatever was your motive in the first

4049
02:31:40,870 --> 02:31:38,800
part it led you to the second part

4050
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:40,880
skeptical 1 0 had to come before

4051
02:31:44,790 --> 02:31:42,399
skeptical 2-0

4052
02:31:47,590 --> 02:31:44,800
it's because of the experiences you had

4053
02:31:50,070 --> 02:31:47,600
in skeptical 1 0 that you went over to

4054
02:31:52,630 --> 02:31:50,080
skeptical 201 i would venture the same

4055
02:31:54,790 --> 02:31:52,640
happened in skeptical 2-0 what you

4056
02:31:58,389 --> 02:31:54,800
experienced there led you to skeptical

4057
02:32:01,190 --> 02:31:58,399
3-0 and with 3-0 i mean well you'll see

4058
02:32:03,110 --> 02:32:01,200
what i mean but obviously when not even

4059
02:32:07,270 --> 02:32:03,120
that help you were hitting people in the

4060
02:32:10,070 --> 02:32:07,280
head with the indisputable evidence yeah

4061
02:32:12,070 --> 02:32:10,080
and you realized consciousness is key

4062
02:32:13,510 --> 02:32:12,080
and nobody was listening everyone was

4063
02:32:16,070 --> 02:32:13,520
out for lunch

4064
02:32:18,150 --> 02:32:16,080
so no not actually everyone let's listen

4065
02:32:20,150 --> 02:32:18,160
to the next clip

4066
02:32:21,270 --> 02:32:20,160
hey alex coming at you from grime

4067
02:32:22,870 --> 02:32:21,280
america

4068
02:32:26,309 --> 02:32:22,880
darren and graham just wanted to wish

4069
02:32:28,309 --> 02:32:26,319
you a happy 15th anniversary

4070
02:32:30,710 --> 02:32:28,319
15 years

4071
02:32:33,830 --> 02:32:30,720
and uh i don't know how many episodes

4072
02:32:35,830 --> 02:32:33,840
not enough but congratulations buddy

4073
02:32:37,510 --> 02:32:35,840
yeah thanks alex i mean he's been so

4074
02:32:39,349 --> 02:32:37,520
helpful for us hey darren i mean he's

4075
02:32:42,230 --> 02:32:39,359
been great you know i remember when we

4076
02:32:44,230 --> 02:32:42,240
first started this thing in 2013 he was

4077
02:32:46,230 --> 02:32:44,240
episode i think he came on our show

4078
02:32:48,070 --> 02:32:46,240
episode 29.

4079
02:32:49,510 --> 02:32:48,080
um and then i think he followed us after

4080
02:32:50,790 --> 02:32:49,520
that because he was

4081
02:32:52,230 --> 02:32:50,800
he was pretty helpful he gave us a

4082
02:32:53,830 --> 02:32:52,240
chance you know he was one of those guys

4083
02:32:55,590 --> 02:32:53,840
that gave us a chance and supported us

4084
02:32:57,030 --> 02:32:55,600
along the way you know

4085
02:32:58,710 --> 02:32:57,040
like we couldn't do without guys like

4086
02:33:00,790 --> 02:32:58,720
alex sort of saying hey you guys are on

4087
02:33:02,790 --> 02:33:00,800
the right track here go for it you know

4088
02:33:05,190 --> 02:33:02,800
100 percent and i'm sure we're not the

4089
02:33:07,270 --> 02:33:05,200
only ones and uh

4090
02:33:08,550 --> 02:33:07,280
here's to 15 more years i mean i'm

4091
02:33:10,469 --> 02:33:08,560
actually i think this year i'm going to

4092
02:33:12,630 --> 02:33:10,479
get down to

4093
02:33:14,870 --> 02:33:12,640
san diego so maybe this will be the year

4094
02:33:17,349 --> 02:33:14,880
i finally get to meet alex i was looking

4095
02:33:19,030 --> 02:33:17,359
through emails uh going back 10 11 years

4096
02:33:20,710 --> 02:33:19,040
ago i was

4097
02:33:23,030 --> 02:33:20,720
because alex was one of these guys where

4098
02:33:25,990 --> 02:33:23,040
uh i'd email him bitching to him about

4099
02:33:27,270 --> 02:33:26,000
ufos because i think he sluffed off ufos

4100
02:33:29,590 --> 02:33:27,280
there was a couple podcasts i was

4101
02:33:31,590 --> 02:33:29,600
listening to and i was like oh man he's

4102
02:33:33,910 --> 02:33:31,600
got a treat and then he and then he

4103
02:33:36,389 --> 02:33:33,920
turned around on it and in like 2012

4104
02:33:38,389 --> 02:33:36,399
he's like oh yeah it's time to to hit

4105
02:33:40,230 --> 02:33:38,399
this topic of ufos kind of thing but i

4106
02:33:41,990 --> 02:33:40,240
always appreciated being able to

4107
02:33:43,510 --> 02:33:42,000
communicate with a host of this show

4108
02:33:45,270 --> 02:33:43,520
who's got all these scientists on and

4109
02:33:46,630 --> 02:33:45,280
he's like sort of battling

4110
02:33:48,550 --> 02:33:46,640
you know kind of at the front lines

4111
02:33:50,550 --> 02:33:48,560
against this you know what we knew at

4112
02:33:52,950 --> 02:33:50,560
the time was sort of a battle over

4113
02:33:54,870 --> 02:33:52,960
consciousness and he was just on the

4114
02:33:57,030 --> 02:33:54,880
front lines and i went through this

4115
02:33:57,910 --> 02:33:57,040
whole phase of skeptical podcasts i went

4116
02:34:00,230 --> 02:33:57,920
through

4117
02:34:01,910 --> 02:34:00,240
ufos and paranormal and the skeptic the

4118
02:34:03,990 --> 02:34:01,920
skeptic's guide to the universe you know

4119
02:34:05,349 --> 02:34:04,000
those those guys and then i just got

4120
02:34:06,870 --> 02:34:05,359
disgusted by the way they're just

4121
02:34:08,630 --> 02:34:06,880
ridiculing people that would have

4122
02:34:11,030 --> 02:34:08,640
sightings or strange experiences and

4123
02:34:13,030 --> 02:34:11,040
then of course alex was right sort of in

4124
02:34:15,030 --> 02:34:13,040
the middle you know he was like he was

4125
02:34:17,190 --> 02:34:15,040
just following the data looking at

4126
02:34:19,670 --> 02:34:17,200
strange experiences that's fine on one

4127
02:34:21,590 --> 02:34:19,680
end but not ridiculing people that uh

4128
02:34:23,990 --> 02:34:21,600
that had these experiences i mean he

4129
02:34:25,670 --> 02:34:24,000
would sort of more ridicule the dogma of

4130
02:34:27,510 --> 02:34:25,680
science and the scientists that are

4131
02:34:29,750 --> 02:34:27,520
holding this together

4132
02:34:30,870 --> 02:34:29,760
you know like charles fort would say the

4133
02:34:33,670 --> 02:34:30,880
uh

4134
02:34:34,630 --> 02:34:33,680
you know this this this yeah this dog

4135
02:34:41,270 --> 02:34:34,640
this

4136
02:34:46,550 --> 02:34:43,270
you know what dude because alex would

4137
02:34:48,469 --> 02:34:46,560
fit right in with fort's like fort's uh

4138
02:34:50,150 --> 02:34:48,479
uh philosophy i think i mean because

4139
02:34:51,670 --> 02:34:50,160
fort was fighting the battle that alex

4140
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:51,680
was fighting back then in the early

4141
02:34:56,230 --> 02:34:54,160
1900s still going

4142
02:34:57,990 --> 02:34:56,240
and it's still going this is the crazy

4143
02:34:59,670 --> 02:34:58,000
thing and i can't tell if we're winning

4144
02:35:01,750 --> 02:34:59,680
or not i mean we are now we're losing we

4145
02:35:03,270 --> 02:35:01,760
are now in a certain way we are well we

4146
02:35:05,670 --> 02:35:03,280
are usually you think we're losing this

4147
02:35:07,349 --> 02:35:05,680
is a this is a change

4148
02:35:09,590 --> 02:35:07,359
i mean i'm talking about more specific

4149
02:35:11,270 --> 02:35:09,600
materialism new atheist battle oh so

4150
02:35:14,100 --> 02:35:11,280
we're gonna win that one right before we

4151
02:35:17,110 --> 02:35:14,110
lose the we're the big ones the big one

4152
02:35:18,630 --> 02:35:17,120
[Applause]

4153
02:35:21,750 --> 02:35:18,640
we win this little battle it would have

4154
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:21,760
turned out to have been a trap

4155
02:35:24,950 --> 02:35:23,280
i'm optimistic

4156
02:35:26,630 --> 02:35:24,960
as always well that whole movement fell

4157
02:35:28,070 --> 02:35:26,640
apart in the last 10 years you know the

4158
02:35:29,750 --> 02:35:28,080
ones that were pushing back the new

4159
02:35:31,670 --> 02:35:29,760
atheists and uh

4160
02:35:34,230 --> 02:35:31,680
and the sort of the skeptic

4161
02:35:36,230 --> 02:35:34,240
the skeptical crowd i think that pz

4162
02:35:37,349 --> 02:35:36,240
meyers kind of went off the deep end i

4163
02:35:39,110 --> 02:35:37,359
think

4164
02:35:41,190 --> 02:35:39,120
that was great that was like a paradigm

4165
02:35:43,510 --> 02:35:41,200
i remember being able to i was like

4166
02:35:44,550 --> 02:35:43,520
so all these people uh that the hudson

4167
02:35:46,870 --> 02:35:44,560
valley because we were talking i was in

4168
02:35:51,429 --> 02:35:46,880
that hudson valley oh you weren't oh

4169
02:35:53,429 --> 02:35:51,439
yeah i i asked pz of a mess a question

4170
02:35:55,510 --> 02:35:53,439
with the mic in front of the whole crowd

4171
02:35:56,950 --> 02:35:55,520
about like so all these people talking

4172
02:35:58,790 --> 02:35:56,960
about the hudson because it was this

4173
02:36:01,270 --> 02:35:58,800
hudson bay flap right the ufo i mean

4174
02:36:06,550 --> 02:36:01,280
that was one of the biggest most under

4175
02:36:11,910 --> 02:36:09,190
congratulations alex

4176
02:36:13,990 --> 02:36:11,920
here's to 15 more years buddy

4177
02:36:15,670 --> 02:36:14,000
i might go to san diego this year i

4178
02:36:19,190 --> 02:36:15,680
think he's somewhere down around there

4179
02:36:25,190 --> 02:36:23,110
of course that was darren and

4180
02:36:27,510 --> 02:36:25,200
graham graham graham graham and aaron

4181
02:36:29,910 --> 02:36:27,520
from grimace

4182
02:36:32,710 --> 02:36:29,920
they touched upon a few interesting

4183
02:36:36,469 --> 02:36:32,720
things but before that they they go also

4184
02:36:38,790 --> 02:36:36,479
a bit back 2013 they said that

4185
02:36:40,550 --> 02:36:38,800
how did you get in touch with these guys

4186
02:36:41,830 --> 02:36:40,560
they reached out to me they had they had

4187
02:36:44,469 --> 02:36:41,840
listened to the show they were fans of

4188
02:36:46,469 --> 02:36:44,479
the show hmm they were talking i think

4189
02:36:48,389 --> 02:36:46,479
uh graham said the same thing to me that

4190
02:36:51,110 --> 02:36:48,399
you've been helping them

4191
02:36:52,630 --> 02:36:51,120
uh and and i think that's like

4192
02:36:55,110 --> 02:36:52,640
i think many people have that impression

4193
02:36:57,830 --> 02:36:55,120
because you're so enthusiastic

4194
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:57,840
that's like typical for uh idealist

4195
02:37:00,870 --> 02:37:00,000
uh and people aren't used to that i

4196
02:37:03,030 --> 02:37:00,880
guess

4197
02:37:05,110 --> 02:37:03,040
so you're very supportive of of other

4198
02:37:05,910 --> 02:37:05,120
people and other people's projects it's

4199
02:37:07,910 --> 02:37:05,920
like

4200
02:37:10,950 --> 02:37:07,920
you're coming from a place of surplus

4201
02:37:12,469 --> 02:37:10,960
not scarcity it's called a new business

4202
02:37:15,110 --> 02:37:12,479
for those who don't know the old

4203
02:37:19,429 --> 02:37:15,120
business is scarcity driven right it's

4204
02:37:21,990 --> 02:37:19,439
the competition and you have to like

4205
02:37:23,750 --> 02:37:22,000
sabotage for each other etc but when you

4206
02:37:25,349 --> 02:37:23,760
have the new business kind of frame of

4207
02:37:27,030 --> 02:37:25,359
mind then you know that no no no the

4208
02:37:29,429 --> 02:37:27,040
more the merrier

4209
02:37:32,389 --> 02:37:29,439
so um i don't know what if if that's

4210
02:37:34,790 --> 02:37:32,399
even on your radar but that's completely

4211
02:37:36,950 --> 02:37:34,800
in harmony with how you're

4212
02:37:38,870 --> 02:37:36,960
you're acting with other people so they

4213
02:37:41,110 --> 02:37:38,880
are very appreciative

4214
02:37:43,429 --> 02:37:41,120
of your your contribution

4215
02:37:47,030 --> 02:37:43,439
well it's awesome you know like we kind

4216
02:37:48,790 --> 02:37:47,040
of said a couple of times it's to be a

4217
02:37:51,190 --> 02:37:48,800
light bringer

4218
02:37:54,469 --> 02:37:51,200
would be all that any of us could ever

4219
02:37:57,270 --> 02:37:54,479
do in our highest contributions so i i

4220
02:38:00,630 --> 02:37:57,280
don't always do that i'm not perfect but

4221
02:38:02,950 --> 02:38:00,640
that's my goal yeah so but it's it's

4222
02:38:05,910 --> 02:38:02,960
telling because these guys

4223
02:38:08,469 --> 02:38:05,920
you know i look at the the first guy we

4224
02:38:11,190 --> 02:38:08,479
we had on here um

4225
02:38:13,270 --> 02:38:11,200
well the second guy uh greg cardboard he

4226
02:38:14,870 --> 02:38:13,280
called himself he said

4227
02:38:17,910 --> 02:38:14,880
stone or something

4228
02:38:21,190 --> 02:38:17,920
yeah kind of kind of but you're damn

4229
02:38:23,110 --> 02:38:21,200
professional greg

4230
02:38:25,110 --> 02:38:23,120
yeah you're you're far beyond a stone

4231
02:38:27,750 --> 02:38:25,120
alone he's front now he's fronting on

4232
02:38:30,230 --> 02:38:27,760
that ain't he yeah yeah but these two

4233
02:38:32,550 --> 02:38:30,240
guys i haven't heard much of them but

4234
02:38:34,469 --> 02:38:32,560
i'm actually going on their show soon

4235
02:38:36,870 --> 02:38:34,479
so i'm going to do my research they come

4236
02:38:39,190 --> 02:38:36,880
off as more like laid back

4237
02:38:40,389 --> 02:38:39,200
stoners and i don't mean to insult them

4238
02:38:42,230 --> 02:38:40,399
if they're not

4239
02:38:44,630 --> 02:38:42,240
into that kind of thing at all i'm just

4240
02:38:45,670 --> 02:38:44,640
saying they they more look look like

4241
02:38:47,910 --> 02:38:45,680
they're

4242
02:38:49,830 --> 02:38:47,920
should i say more relaxed in their

4243
02:38:51,190 --> 02:38:49,840
approach to things well they're they're

4244
02:38:53,830 --> 02:38:51,200
canadian

4245
02:38:56,150 --> 02:38:53,840
they're awesome awesome awesome

4246
02:38:58,150 --> 02:38:56,160
canadians no i mean there are you know

4247
02:39:00,230 --> 02:38:58,160
how many great canadian

4248
02:39:02,070 --> 02:39:00,240
comedians there are and entertainers i

4249
02:39:03,670 --> 02:39:02,080
mean yeah that culture breeds a certain

4250
02:39:05,110 --> 02:39:03,680
i've noticed that i don't know why

4251
02:39:07,110 --> 02:39:05,120
because because they're they're just

4252
02:39:09,910 --> 02:39:07,120
there's a warmth about graham and darren

4253
02:39:11,590 --> 02:39:09,920
there's a genuineness about him and uh

4254
02:39:13,990 --> 02:39:11,600
like you know the part i thought you're

4255
02:39:17,670 --> 02:39:14,000
gonna pull out of that is like hey man

4256
02:39:20,389 --> 02:39:17,680
yeah i didn't i i wasn't awoken to the

4257
02:39:22,230 --> 02:39:20,399
ufo thing no i didn't support no no that

4258
02:39:24,070 --> 02:39:22,240
is the part i'm gonna i just wanted to

4259
02:39:26,950 --> 02:39:24,080
give them a little kudos before we go

4260
02:39:28,870 --> 02:39:26,960
back on on track so let's do that yes

4261
02:39:30,710 --> 02:39:28,880
they were pointing out they were even

4262
02:39:31,670 --> 02:39:30,720
nagging you about it

4263
02:39:36,070 --> 02:39:31,680
and

4264
02:39:39,510 --> 02:39:36,080
i think the ufo really is uh you know

4265
02:39:40,710 --> 02:39:39,520
skeptical 3-0 now you've done

4266
02:39:43,349 --> 02:39:40,720
all the

4267
02:39:46,469 --> 02:39:43,359
inquiries that's possible and from your

4268
02:39:48,469 --> 02:39:46,479
2-0 experience you realize [\h__\h] this

4269
02:39:52,469 --> 02:39:48,479
rabbit hole goes much deeper than i

4270
02:39:53,750 --> 02:39:52,479
thought this is when ufos and conspiracy

4271
02:39:56,630 --> 02:39:53,760
becomes

4272
02:39:59,349 --> 02:39:56,640
high up on your radar if you can put it

4273
02:40:01,030 --> 02:39:59,359
like that because uh notice what they

4274
02:40:02,630 --> 02:40:01,040
were talking about the battle the

4275
02:40:05,190 --> 02:40:02,640
paradigm battle

4276
02:40:07,349 --> 02:40:05,200
very funny uh how they pointed it out in

4277
02:40:10,790 --> 02:40:07,359
fact before you even comment i want to

4278
02:40:13,030 --> 02:40:10,800
play a very brief clip listen to this

4279
02:40:15,990 --> 02:40:13,040
before we celebrate you know the coming

4280
02:40:18,230 --> 02:40:16,000
paradigm shift i think we have to take a

4281
02:40:20,870 --> 02:40:18,240
good look at even this brief little

4282
02:40:22,870 --> 02:40:20,880
snippet of history and learn a lesson

4283
02:40:24,790 --> 02:40:22,880
from that and be very cautious in our

4284
02:40:27,030 --> 02:40:24,800
optimism that there is going to be a lot

4285
02:40:29,269 --> 02:40:27,040
of change i don't see a lot of evidence

4286
02:40:31,590 --> 02:40:29,279
for it then again in a recent interview

4287
02:40:33,030 --> 02:40:31,600
with dr mario beauregard i asked him

4288
02:40:34,469 --> 02:40:33,040
that question directly and i thought he

4289
02:40:35,910 --> 02:40:34,479
had a very strong

4290
02:40:37,590 --> 02:40:35,920
argument for

4291
02:40:39,429 --> 02:40:37,600
the fact that there is this change and

4292
02:40:42,150 --> 02:40:39,439
he's a neuroscientist

4293
02:40:43,910 --> 02:40:42,160
in montreal and he says hey at my

4294
02:40:45,750 --> 02:40:43,920
university at my conferences in the in

4295
02:40:48,469 --> 02:40:45,760
the journals that i publish in i

4296
02:40:50,469 --> 02:40:48,479
definitely see a shift a change

4297
02:40:53,110 --> 02:40:50,479
in the openness of these ideas in the

4298
02:40:55,830 --> 02:40:53,120
last 10 years so maybe i'm being too

4299
02:40:58,790 --> 02:40:55,840
pessimistic but isn't it a little bit

4300
02:41:01,269 --> 02:40:58,800
strange that we can walk down this path

4301
02:41:03,670 --> 02:41:01,279
and we can all have this conversation

4302
02:41:06,309 --> 02:41:03,680
about belief about what's important and

4303
02:41:08,230 --> 02:41:06,319
what we know and we have a tendency no

4304
02:41:11,510 --> 02:41:08,240
matter how many times we bring it up to

4305
02:41:14,309 --> 02:41:11,520
gloss over the reality that we live in a

4306
02:41:17,269 --> 02:41:14,319
world in a society that has made these

4307
02:41:19,750 --> 02:41:17,279
kind of topics taboo so that leads me to

4308
02:41:21,670 --> 02:41:19,760
one question and that is

4309
02:41:25,269 --> 02:41:21,680
why are so many of the topics we talk

4310
02:41:28,309 --> 02:41:25,279
about on skeptico taboo

4311
02:41:31,830 --> 02:41:28,319
and mind you this was said before you

4312
02:41:33,990 --> 02:41:31,840
went deep into ufos and conspiracies

4313
02:41:36,590 --> 02:41:34,000
so even from the

4314
02:41:38,150 --> 02:41:36,600
completely legitimate stuff

4315
02:41:40,309 --> 02:41:38,160
evidence-based

4316
02:41:41,750 --> 02:41:40,319
mainstream academic stuff that you were

4317
02:41:42,950 --> 02:41:41,760
flushing out

4318
02:41:45,670 --> 02:41:42,960
still

4319
02:41:46,870 --> 02:41:45,680
taboo can't go there

4320
02:41:47,750 --> 02:41:46,880
of course that didn't stop you from

4321
02:41:50,469 --> 02:41:47,760
going

4322
02:41:53,590 --> 02:41:50,479
deeper but but do you agree with me that

4323
02:41:55,990 --> 02:41:53,600
skeptical 3-0 is when your focus is

4324
02:41:57,510 --> 02:41:56,000
shifting over to the really deep and

4325
02:41:59,269 --> 02:41:57,520
that's where it really kind of comes in

4326
02:42:01,910 --> 02:41:59,279
line with a lot of the work that you've

4327
02:42:03,830 --> 02:42:01,920
done i think yeah i agree and that's

4328
02:42:05,030 --> 02:42:03,840
when i i think that's when we connected

4329
02:42:06,870 --> 02:42:05,040
too

4330
02:42:08,950 --> 02:42:06,880
well you know it's what's funny and it's

4331
02:42:10,870 --> 02:42:08,960
funny listening to the darren and graham

4332
02:42:12,870 --> 02:42:10,880
thing it's like

4333
02:42:15,230 --> 02:42:12,880
i think that i was

4334
02:42:17,590 --> 02:42:15,240
i was never worried about intellectual

4335
02:42:18,469 --> 02:42:17,600
respectability you know i wasn't worried

4336
02:42:21,830 --> 02:42:18,479
about

4337
02:42:23,110 --> 02:42:21,840
the taboo topics that then no one would

4338
02:42:26,790 --> 02:42:23,120
but i was

4339
02:42:29,190 --> 02:42:26,800
somewhat influenced by the little bit of

4340
02:42:30,469 --> 02:42:29,200
the stockholm syndrome thing a little

4341
02:42:31,590 --> 02:42:30,479
bit of the

4342
02:42:34,790 --> 02:42:31,600
you know

4343
02:42:37,429 --> 02:42:34,800
don't go it's it's like um it's like a

4344
02:42:39,750 --> 02:42:37,439
guy once once told me anything

4345
02:42:41,910 --> 02:42:39,760
and i love this this is so true he said

4346
02:42:43,750 --> 02:42:41,920
there's a crazy line there's a crazy

4347
02:42:45,750 --> 02:42:43,760
line and you don't want to go past it

4348
02:42:49,590 --> 02:42:45,760
and then he proceeded to tell me that

4349
02:42:51,510 --> 02:42:49,600
his crazy line was underground bases

4350
02:42:53,990 --> 02:42:51,520
i remember a few years ago recounting

4351
02:42:55,910 --> 02:42:54,000
the story to someone else saying now i

4352
02:42:59,349 --> 02:42:55,920
know there's there's a pretty

4353
02:43:02,790 --> 02:42:59,359
substantial very substantial i would say

4354
02:43:04,550 --> 02:43:02,800
evidence for underground bases and then

4355
02:43:06,150 --> 02:43:04,560
you can take the really exaggerated

4356
02:43:07,750 --> 02:43:06,160
stories and maybe those aren't true and

4357
02:43:09,269 --> 02:43:07,760
maybe those are misinformation but

4358
02:43:10,790 --> 02:43:09,279
there's a lot of other ones where they

4359
02:43:12,630 --> 02:43:10,800
got the vents you know and they see the

4360
02:43:14,230 --> 02:43:12,640
cars driving into the mountain and stuff

4361
02:43:15,670 --> 02:43:14,240
like that and they videotaped it and

4362
02:43:17,030 --> 02:43:15,680
stuff like that so

4363
02:43:20,070 --> 02:43:17,040
not to get too far

4364
02:43:21,510 --> 02:43:20,080
how random his his line was but that's

4365
02:43:24,150 --> 02:43:21,520
it

4366
02:43:27,670 --> 02:43:24,160
that's exactly yeah go on so so uh my i

4367
02:43:30,309 --> 02:43:27,680
was at that point i was at that point of

4368
02:43:33,190 --> 02:43:30,319
really pulling back a little bit and

4369
02:43:35,349 --> 02:43:33,200
saying you know what if if i do cross

4370
02:43:36,630 --> 02:43:35,359
that crazy line well it's perceived to

4371
02:43:38,630 --> 02:43:36,640
be a crazy line

4372
02:43:39,349 --> 02:43:38,640
it is going to be another line and and

4373
02:43:44,070 --> 02:43:39,359
it's

4374
02:43:46,230 --> 02:43:44,080
chasm and once you jump over the other

4375
02:43:48,389 --> 02:43:46,240
side it's like

4376
02:43:49,429 --> 02:43:48,399
on the mountain analogy you're using

4377
02:43:51,030 --> 02:43:49,439
there's a lot of people that are going

4378
02:43:52,950 --> 02:43:51,040
to come up they're going no man don't go

4379
02:43:54,950 --> 02:43:52,960
there no thanks i'm not jumping that

4380
02:43:57,110 --> 02:43:54,960
line no no yeah

4381
02:43:59,190 --> 02:43:57,120
yeah the overtone window

4382
02:44:00,469 --> 02:43:59,200
is controlled by the powers that be

4383
02:44:02,550 --> 02:44:00,479
right that's the educational

4384
02:44:05,349 --> 02:44:02,560
institutions the media

4385
02:44:07,830 --> 02:44:05,359
and it's been threatened by internet

4386
02:44:10,790 --> 02:44:07,840
which is why they now are extending

4387
02:44:12,469 --> 02:44:10,800
operation mockingbird to the internet

4388
02:44:13,990 --> 02:44:12,479
well they don't all the time but now

4389
02:44:17,190 --> 02:44:14,000
they're screwing the

4390
02:44:20,550 --> 02:44:17,200
tight the screws on social media but

4391
02:44:23,269 --> 02:44:20,560
that's the very narrow overtone window

4392
02:44:25,750 --> 02:44:23,279
that the public can afford then you have

4393
02:44:28,950 --> 02:44:25,760
individuals and they usually have a

4394
02:44:30,870 --> 02:44:28,960
overtone window that is a little bigger

4395
02:44:32,790 --> 02:44:30,880
than the public one

4396
02:44:34,710 --> 02:44:32,800
but it can go in many different

4397
02:44:36,309 --> 02:44:34,720
directions some people can have like a

4398
02:44:38,389 --> 02:44:36,319
pulley you can have like people who are

4399
02:44:41,349 --> 02:44:38,399
aware of the political conspiracy but

4400
02:44:43,110 --> 02:44:41,359
there may be atheists they have no idea

4401
02:44:43,990 --> 02:44:43,120
you see what i mean so you have very

4402
02:44:46,150 --> 02:44:44,000
many

4403
02:44:50,150 --> 02:44:46,160
see the same with sheldrick he is aware

4404
02:44:52,469 --> 02:44:50,160
that wikipedia is hijacked by this crazy

4405
02:44:55,110 --> 02:44:52,479
fanatical gang but

4406
02:44:57,510 --> 02:44:55,120
he's aware of it in his field yes he's

4407
02:45:00,550 --> 02:44:57,520
not aware that exact same thing is

4408
02:45:03,110 --> 02:45:00,560
happening every other field which can be

4409
02:45:04,710 --> 02:45:03,120
regarded as controversial somehow for

4410
02:45:06,309 --> 02:45:04,720
powerful interests

4411
02:45:10,150 --> 02:45:06,319
not who won

4412
02:45:12,630 --> 02:45:10,160
the you know the football game in 2015

4413
02:45:16,070 --> 02:45:12,640
the championship no no no you can rely

4414
02:45:18,309 --> 02:45:16,080
on wikipedia but political stuff

4415
02:45:20,710 --> 02:45:18,319
social stuff you name it

4416
02:45:23,510 --> 02:45:20,720
even a prime pedophilic stuff you name

4417
02:45:27,110 --> 02:45:23,520
it so people don't know that the

4418
02:45:29,110 --> 02:45:27,120
overturn window is gigantic really well

4419
02:45:30,790 --> 02:45:29,120
quick story quick story that was you

4420
02:45:32,469 --> 02:45:30,800
know fundamental to shifting things for

4421
02:45:35,590 --> 02:45:32,479
me so once you cross the chasm and you

4422
02:45:38,230 --> 02:45:35,600
go okay i'm willing to i'm really to go

4423
02:45:40,710 --> 02:45:38,240
there right the evidence for and and you

4424
02:45:42,469 --> 02:45:40,720
know graham is so right to call me out

4425
02:45:44,389 --> 02:45:42,479
for that because i knew that the ufo

4426
02:45:46,389 --> 02:45:44,399
thing was real and i wasn't really

4427
02:45:48,309 --> 02:45:46,399
willing to go there fully i wasn't able

4428
02:45:50,630 --> 02:45:48,319
to i wasn't willing to fully engage with

4429
02:45:52,550 --> 02:45:50,640
that because

4430
02:45:54,790 --> 02:45:52,560
i just felt like

4431
02:45:56,790 --> 02:45:54,800
i wasn't ready you know i wasn't ready

4432
02:45:59,110 --> 02:45:56,800
and when i said the ufo thing it's the

4433
02:46:00,950 --> 02:45:59,120
e.t thing too because i was amazing

4434
02:46:02,790 --> 02:46:00,960
people would go with the ufo thing and

4435
02:46:04,150 --> 02:46:02,800
then they'll go yeah but i just can't

4436
02:46:06,710 --> 02:46:04,160
get over the i can't get to the

4437
02:46:09,030 --> 02:46:06,720
abduction thing or i can't get the e.t

4438
02:46:10,469 --> 02:46:09,040
that's one line the next one after that

4439
02:46:12,870 --> 02:46:10,479
is abductions

4440
02:46:14,710 --> 02:46:12,880
yeah it's like who is driving who's

4441
02:46:16,469 --> 02:46:14,720
flying around in those things anyways

4442
02:46:18,870 --> 02:46:16,479
but what i was gonna say as you relate

4443
02:46:20,790 --> 02:46:18,880
to social media i remember so the and

4444
02:46:23,349 --> 02:46:20,800
the conspiracy thing the first thing i

4445
02:46:24,950 --> 02:46:23,359
wake up to is jfk because there's like

4446
02:46:26,710 --> 02:46:24,960
these million old things i would and

4447
02:46:28,150 --> 02:46:26,720
then i remember i told the story a

4448
02:46:29,590 --> 02:46:28,160
million times i don't know if you ever

4449
02:46:31,110 --> 02:46:29,600
played this clip but i'm sitting on the

4450
02:46:33,429 --> 02:46:31,120
edge of the bed after i'd watched like

4451
02:46:35,510 --> 02:46:33,439
40 hours of jfk videos and saying to my

4452
02:46:37,830 --> 02:46:35,520
wife i said wow you know that's

4453
02:46:40,070 --> 02:46:37,840
i guess it really was a conspiracy asset

4454
02:46:41,750 --> 02:46:40,080
but like this 911 thing oh i could never

4455
02:46:42,630 --> 02:46:41,760
go there

4456
02:46:45,110 --> 02:46:42,640
so

4457
02:46:47,349 --> 02:46:45,120
obviously 911 to anyone who doesn't know

4458
02:46:49,190 --> 02:46:47,359
obviously conspiracy obviously an inside

4459
02:46:50,710 --> 02:46:49,200
job and i remember one of the guys i was

4460
02:46:52,870 --> 02:46:50,720
fighting i mean the official version is

4461
02:46:54,150 --> 02:46:52,880
also conspiracy theories

4462
02:46:56,469 --> 02:46:54,160
exactly

4463
02:46:58,230 --> 02:46:56,479
undisputed but but one of the people in

4464
02:47:00,230 --> 02:46:58,240
this guy was on the show and he's done

4465
02:47:03,429 --> 02:47:00,240
some great work his name is lucas luke

4466
02:47:06,150 --> 02:47:03,439
rodkowski and he oh yeah

4467
02:47:07,990 --> 02:47:06,160
yeah we are change yes

4468
02:47:10,950 --> 02:47:08,000
on the streets he's done unbelievable

4469
02:47:12,070 --> 02:47:10,960
work over the years fantastic guy but i

4470
02:47:15,429 --> 02:47:12,080
remember

4471
02:47:18,950 --> 02:47:15,439
luke rotkowski way back this is at least

4472
02:47:21,190 --> 02:47:18,960
seven years ago maybe 10 but at least

4473
02:47:23,110 --> 02:47:21,200
at least seven years ago

4474
02:47:26,230 --> 02:47:23,120
he's the first guy who pointed out the

4475
02:47:27,830 --> 02:47:26,240
demonetization and the shadow banning

4476
02:47:28,870 --> 02:47:27,840
and it happened to him

4477
02:47:31,190 --> 02:47:28,880
and

4478
02:47:34,230 --> 02:47:31,200
he demonstrated it he said here's my

4479
02:47:36,070 --> 02:47:34,240
youtube channel he goes look this thing

4480
02:47:38,230 --> 02:47:36,080
doesn't it no longer generates any

4481
02:47:40,150 --> 02:47:38,240
revenue and i've called youtube on it

4482
02:47:41,990 --> 02:47:40,160
and i've emailed and they just don't say

4483
02:47:43,910 --> 02:47:42,000
anything but here's the point of my

4484
02:47:46,710 --> 02:47:43,920
story i remember being out in silicon

4485
02:47:48,630 --> 02:47:46,720
valley and uh meeting this guy i'm not

4486
02:47:50,790 --> 02:47:48,640
going to mention his name but this guy's

4487
02:47:52,710 --> 02:47:50,800
really a pretty top-notch guy he had a

4488
02:47:55,030 --> 02:47:52,720
lot of connections with some serious

4489
02:47:56,630 --> 02:47:55,040
silicon valley people you know like

4490
02:47:58,150 --> 02:47:56,640
google and that kind of stuff he knew

4491
02:47:59,030 --> 02:47:58,160
some people at pretty high level you

4492
02:48:00,870 --> 02:47:59,040
know

4493
02:48:03,190 --> 02:48:00,880
and i was telling him this because i had

4494
02:48:05,030 --> 02:48:03,200
now been awoken to the

4495
02:48:06,469 --> 02:48:05,040
conspiracy game

4496
02:48:08,870 --> 02:48:06,479
and i always remember

4497
02:48:10,630 --> 02:48:08,880
he's like no that just that just isn't

4498
02:48:13,110 --> 02:48:10,640
true that just can't happen they would

4499
02:48:15,429 --> 02:48:13,120
never do that google would never do that

4500
02:48:17,990 --> 02:48:15,439
it's fundamentally against everything

4501
02:48:20,469 --> 02:48:18,000
they believe in well

4502
02:48:22,710 --> 02:48:20,479
now that that's not even

4503
02:48:24,630 --> 02:48:22,720
that's acknowledged it's acknowledged

4504
02:48:26,710 --> 02:48:24,640
that we shadow ban people no they brag

4505
02:48:28,950 --> 02:48:26,720
about it yeah they brag about it it's so

4506
02:48:31,269 --> 02:48:28,960
in your face so

4507
02:48:34,150 --> 02:48:31,279
this this is part of this

4508
02:48:36,070 --> 02:48:34,160
evolution that anyone goes through

4509
02:48:38,710 --> 02:48:36,080
who seeks the truth

4510
02:48:41,349 --> 02:48:38,720
if there is a if there is a moral to

4511
02:48:44,070 --> 02:48:41,359
this story or if there is some theme or

4512
02:48:45,030 --> 02:48:44,080
some arc to this story of skeptico it's

4513
02:48:46,950 --> 02:48:45,040
that

4514
02:48:49,030 --> 02:48:46,960
this is one of the things you encounter

4515
02:48:51,510 --> 02:48:49,040
you keep thinking you know oh i've

4516
02:48:53,030 --> 02:48:51,520
crossed this hill so now i'm i'm there

4517
02:48:54,710 --> 02:48:53,040
you know and then you say well what's i

4518
02:48:56,550 --> 02:48:54,720
wonder what's over that next hill and

4519
02:48:59,110 --> 02:48:56,560
then you cross that one and then you

4520
02:49:00,630 --> 02:48:59,120
realize that it never really ends and

4521
02:49:02,230 --> 02:49:00,640
it's really the journey that you're on

4522
02:49:04,469 --> 02:49:02,240
which is yeah yeah what it was all about

4523
02:49:06,389 --> 02:49:04,479
anyway yeah like andy said too he said

4524
02:49:08,550 --> 02:49:06,399
that

4525
02:49:10,309 --> 02:49:08,560
i always mess up this quote but

4526
02:49:13,190 --> 02:49:10,319
basically you can't distinguish between

4527
02:49:16,070 --> 02:49:13,200
the path the way and the goal

4528
02:49:19,030 --> 02:49:16,080
they are one yes in other words of

4529
02:49:21,590 --> 02:49:19,040
course the means doesn't justify

4530
02:49:23,349 --> 02:49:21,600
uh how you say it in english the

4531
02:49:24,790 --> 02:49:23,359
gold the ends and the ants doesn't

4532
02:49:27,830 --> 02:49:24,800
justify the means

4533
02:49:30,469 --> 02:49:27,840
it goes to that too because the means

4534
02:49:33,349 --> 02:49:30,479
is reflecting of your end it's it's like

4535
02:49:34,950 --> 02:49:33,359
that old quote is a buddha

4536
02:49:37,510 --> 02:49:34,960
one of these wise people said if you

4537
02:49:39,670 --> 02:49:37,520
want to know your your former life

4538
02:49:42,070 --> 02:49:39,680
look at the life you're living now if

4539
02:49:44,710 --> 02:49:42,080
you want to know your future life look

4540
02:49:47,030 --> 02:49:44,720
at the life you're living now

4541
02:49:50,389 --> 02:49:47,040
it's the eternal now right and that's in

4542
02:49:52,150 --> 02:49:50,399
it's being informed by what pre

4543
02:49:54,550 --> 02:49:52,160
happened before and it's

4544
02:49:56,469 --> 02:49:54,560
informing where you're going and that's

4545
02:49:58,630 --> 02:49:56,479
the thing because this is a callback to

4546
02:50:01,110 --> 02:49:58,640
what we said in the beginning

4547
02:50:04,630 --> 02:50:01,120
when i was curious in you for having

4548
02:50:07,190 --> 02:50:04,640
this merciless honest sincere no other

4549
02:50:11,269 --> 02:50:07,200
agenda just getting to the bottom of the

4550
02:50:13,190 --> 02:50:11,279
truth so it worked and you realized bam

4551
02:50:15,110 --> 02:50:13,200
it's unartificial it's a stuck on stupid

4552
02:50:17,670 --> 02:50:15,120
debate let's move on bum

4553
02:50:20,630 --> 02:50:17,680
number two right now you deep dive into

4554
02:50:22,870 --> 02:50:20,640
the all exciting signs on the one side

4555
02:50:24,870 --> 02:50:22,880
the consciousness the death

4556
02:50:25,990 --> 02:50:24,880
everything and and you realize also the

4557
02:50:27,990 --> 02:50:26,000
game is rigged because you're not

4558
02:50:29,910 --> 02:50:28,000
getting any traction you're not get why

4559
02:50:31,830 --> 02:50:29,920
aren't we cancelling the question of

4560
02:50:33,429 --> 02:50:31,840
who's right and what's what why aren't

4561
02:50:35,910 --> 02:50:33,439
everybody just saying now yes

4562
02:50:38,150 --> 02:50:35,920
consciousness is key and that's why i

4563
02:50:41,030 --> 02:50:38,160
would say the former clip which ended

4564
02:50:43,269 --> 02:50:41,040
why is everything we do taboo yes i

4565
02:50:46,550 --> 02:50:43,279
would say that was like the last echo of

4566
02:50:50,070 --> 02:50:46,560
skeptical 2-0 and skeptical 3-0 you

4567
02:50:52,550 --> 02:50:50,080
would describe like this

4568
02:50:55,110 --> 02:50:52,560
feel that the skeptico show has gone

4569
02:50:58,790 --> 02:50:55,120
through a couple major revisions

4570
02:51:01,030 --> 02:50:58,800
i always think of skeptico 1.0 as being

4571
02:51:02,469 --> 02:51:01,040
follow the data wherever it leads and

4572
02:51:03,750 --> 02:51:02,479
that was me

4573
02:51:06,230 --> 02:51:03,760
thinking that

4574
02:51:08,469 --> 02:51:06,240
science and skepticism was pretty much

4575
02:51:10,070 --> 02:51:08,479
of a straight-up game and we just had to

4576
02:51:12,150 --> 02:51:10,080
dig into the science and we'd get the

4577
02:51:14,710 --> 02:51:12,160
answers that we need and there's some

4578
02:51:16,950 --> 02:51:14,720
truth to that but i think what it led to

4579
02:51:19,269 --> 02:51:16,960
was a greater truth that i call

4580
02:51:21,910 --> 02:51:19,279
skeptical 2.0 at least to myself i call

4581
02:51:24,230 --> 02:51:21,920
it that and that was about it's more

4582
02:51:27,269 --> 02:51:24,240
than the data it's about the larger

4583
02:51:29,910 --> 02:51:27,279
culture of science it's about deception

4584
02:51:32,070 --> 02:51:29,920
conspiracy it's about the way the world

4585
02:51:34,630 --> 02:51:32,080
works and the motivations of the

4586
02:51:36,790 --> 02:51:34,640
individuals involved and we've explored

4587
02:51:39,110 --> 02:51:36,800
that a great deal on skeptico and it's

4588
02:51:42,230 --> 02:51:39,120
led to some interesting places

4589
02:51:46,550 --> 02:51:42,240
so with that i kind of see the show

4590
02:51:50,070 --> 02:51:46,560
moving towards skeptico 3.0 the data

4591
02:51:51,510 --> 02:51:50,080
collective how you and i can learn from

4592
02:51:54,950 --> 02:51:51,520
each other and

4593
02:51:57,349 --> 02:51:54,960
crowd source this journey that i've been

4594
02:51:59,510 --> 02:51:57,359
talking about that i have been on but

4595
02:52:01,349 --> 02:51:59,520
really i've been on it with you because

4596
02:52:03,670 --> 02:52:01,359
as you know if you follow the show

4597
02:52:06,309 --> 02:52:03,680
especially recently i've relied more and

4598
02:52:08,870 --> 02:52:06,319
more on skeptical listeners to suggest

4599
02:52:10,150 --> 02:52:08,880
guests and you guys have done a fabulous

4600
02:52:12,309 --> 02:52:10,160
job of that there's been some great

4601
02:52:15,590 --> 02:52:12,319
emails that really are much better than

4602
02:52:17,429 --> 02:52:15,600
i could write to entice people to join

4603
02:52:19,750 --> 02:52:17,439
me on the show and they've led to some

4604
02:52:21,910 --> 02:52:19,760
really great interviews that i've grown

4605
02:52:24,230 --> 02:52:21,920
a lot from but i want to take it one

4606
02:52:26,389 --> 02:52:24,240
step further now i've opened up a thread

4607
02:52:29,190 --> 02:52:26,399
on the skeptical forum so i can take

4608
02:52:32,309 --> 02:52:29,200
advantage of this incredible collective

4609
02:52:34,710 --> 02:52:32,319
knowledge of the skeptical listeners and

4610
02:52:37,190 --> 02:52:34,720
hopefully you can help guide me and we

4611
02:52:38,710 --> 02:52:37,200
can work together to figure out

4612
02:52:41,030 --> 02:52:38,720
what direction i should take this

4613
02:52:42,950 --> 02:52:41,040
interview and i think that has two

4614
02:52:45,030 --> 02:52:42,960
benefits one obviously i can be better

4615
02:52:46,469 --> 02:52:45,040
informed and ask better questions but

4616
02:52:48,710 --> 02:52:46,479
the other thing that i really want to

4617
02:52:51,910 --> 02:52:48,720
get to is i've noticed so many times in

4618
02:52:53,830 --> 02:52:51,920
the skeptico interviews that it's really

4619
02:52:56,230 --> 02:52:53,840
the second interview or the follow-up to

4620
02:52:59,190 --> 02:52:56,240
the first interview where some of the

4621
02:53:01,750 --> 02:52:59,200
main meatiest issues really get resolved

4622
02:53:03,750 --> 02:53:01,760
it's the interview 2.0 if i can stretch

4623
02:53:05,670 --> 02:53:03,760
the revision metaphor a little bit

4624
02:53:08,469 --> 02:53:05,680
further but i think that's where all the

4625
02:53:11,429 --> 02:53:08,479
action happens and what i'm hoping is

4626
02:53:13,590 --> 02:53:11,439
that by you participating in helping me

4627
02:53:15,349 --> 02:53:13,600
formulate the ideas for these upcoming

4628
02:53:17,269 --> 02:53:15,359
interviews we can work together we can

4629
02:53:19,510 --> 02:53:17,279
maybe even collect some information have

4630
02:53:21,910 --> 02:53:19,520
an exchange with the guests so we can

4631
02:53:23,990 --> 02:53:21,920
actually have a pre-email interview

4632
02:53:26,950 --> 02:53:24,000
through the forum and then really get to

4633
02:53:29,670 --> 02:53:26,960
some of the meaty stuff in the show

4634
02:53:32,550 --> 02:53:29,680
and i think the question here is what

4635
02:53:35,830 --> 02:53:32,560
direction should we take skeptico

4636
02:53:38,230 --> 02:53:35,840
as we evolve towards this skeptico 3.0

4637
02:53:41,269 --> 02:53:38,240
that i'm talking about a couple of areas

4638
02:53:43,269 --> 02:53:41,279
i want to pursue further and they really

4639
02:53:45,030 --> 02:53:43,279
have a tendency to polarize people or

4640
02:53:47,349 --> 02:53:45,040
maybe more accurately to really put

4641
02:53:49,670 --> 02:53:47,359
people off but one of the nice things

4642
02:53:51,990 --> 02:53:49,680
about doing a show like this and not

4643
02:53:54,710 --> 02:53:52,000
caring too much about growing your

4644
02:53:56,630 --> 02:53:54,720
audience as much as you can or appealing

4645
02:53:58,950 --> 02:53:56,640
to a certain crowd

4646
02:54:01,670 --> 02:53:58,960
is that you don't have to worry if

4647
02:54:05,830 --> 02:54:01,680
people are put off by these topics but

4648
02:54:08,230 --> 02:54:05,840
one topic is ufos and the et hypothesis

4649
02:54:10,710 --> 02:54:08,240
i think it's central central i've

4650
02:54:12,469 --> 02:54:10,720
explored it a little bit in terms of how

4651
02:54:15,030 --> 02:54:12,479
that might relate to consciousness what

4652
02:54:16,950 --> 02:54:15,040
those reports mean but i think wrestling

4653
02:54:18,230 --> 02:54:16,960
that to the ground and figuring out as

4654
02:54:21,910 --> 02:54:18,240
best you can

4655
02:54:26,150 --> 02:54:21,920
what the reality of that is is central

4656
02:54:28,790 --> 02:54:26,160
to answering these big picture questions

4657
02:54:31,750 --> 02:54:28,800
yeah and i call this clip on skeptical

4658
02:54:33,349 --> 02:54:31,760
3-0 community inputs and extending into

4659
02:54:35,830 --> 02:54:33,359
the deep end

4660
02:54:37,030 --> 02:54:35,840
summing up a little what we already said

4661
02:54:38,790 --> 02:54:37,040
but um

4662
02:54:40,790 --> 02:54:38,800
you did you're touching two things i

4663
02:54:42,309 --> 02:54:40,800
want us to comment upon here now one of

4664
02:54:44,550 --> 02:54:42,319
them is

4665
02:54:47,110 --> 02:54:44,560
you have experimented with various

4666
02:54:49,670 --> 02:54:47,120
formats haven't you because i love you i

4667
02:54:51,750 --> 02:54:49,680
teased you some time ago about

4668
02:54:52,710 --> 02:54:51,760
some of your early shows were super

4669
02:54:54,630 --> 02:54:52,720
short

4670
02:54:56,550 --> 02:54:54,640
and i guess you didn't have much

4671
02:54:59,269 --> 02:54:56,560
comparison back then because there was

4672
02:55:01,990 --> 02:54:59,279
many podcasts so i guess a 20 minute

4673
02:55:03,590 --> 02:55:02,000
show could fly back then yeah although

4674
02:55:06,389 --> 02:55:03,600
of course to be fair in general they

4675
02:55:08,550 --> 02:55:06,399
were about an hour but i remember when

4676
02:55:11,110 --> 02:55:08,560
we connected you were like you you were

4677
02:55:12,870 --> 02:55:11,120
very swayed enticed by the idea of

4678
02:55:15,590 --> 02:55:12,880
having long form

4679
02:55:17,990 --> 02:55:15,600
and when i listened also to your

4680
02:55:21,190 --> 02:55:18,000
because all these statements of alex

4681
02:55:24,230 --> 02:55:21,200
that i'm playing today are like um

4682
02:55:25,910 --> 02:55:24,240
announcements or or commentaries that he

4683
02:55:28,230 --> 02:55:25,920
has given at certain

4684
02:55:31,830 --> 02:55:28,240
turning points in the show

4685
02:55:34,630 --> 02:55:31,840
and so uh in many of them you are

4686
02:55:36,070 --> 02:55:34,640
thinking aloud yes uh and that's also

4687
02:55:40,630 --> 02:55:36,080
very

4688
02:55:43,910 --> 02:55:40,640
you always try to include the listeners

4689
02:55:45,910 --> 02:55:43,920
and the skeptical uh gang but you are

4690
02:55:48,550 --> 02:55:45,920
like looking for

4691
02:55:51,590 --> 02:55:48,560
different ways to do things

4692
02:55:53,269 --> 02:55:51,600
uh it's it i think it's related to what

4693
02:55:55,670 --> 02:55:53,279
we already talked about that you for

4694
02:55:57,830 --> 02:55:55,680
example that you're doing experiments

4695
02:56:00,150 --> 02:55:57,840
in parallel with the show that's very

4696
02:56:01,910 --> 02:56:00,160
unique so it's like you always it's not

4697
02:56:03,590 --> 02:56:01,920
just just that you're trying to look for

4698
02:56:04,870 --> 02:56:03,600
new topics you're also trying to look

4699
02:56:07,910 --> 02:56:04,880
for new

4700
02:56:10,630 --> 02:56:07,920
ways and vehicles and we'll get to

4701
02:56:13,110 --> 02:56:10,640
some even more loudable projects a

4702
02:56:14,870 --> 02:56:13,120
little later but right now it looks to

4703
02:56:17,510 --> 02:56:14,880
me as if you've been open to

4704
02:56:20,469 --> 02:56:17,520
experimenting with the format too

4705
02:56:24,070 --> 02:56:20,479
well yeah and uh you're right to point

4706
02:56:26,150 --> 02:56:24,080
out that when i did first time i did

4707
02:56:28,230 --> 02:56:26,160
we did some interviews i interviewed you

4708
02:56:30,230 --> 02:56:28,240
i think first and then you interviewed

4709
02:56:31,590 --> 02:56:30,240
me i can't remember but

4710
02:56:33,990 --> 02:56:31,600
or maybe you've interviewed me i can't

4711
02:56:35,830 --> 02:56:34,000
remember but yeah i i

4712
02:56:37,910 --> 02:56:35,840
i was very very

4713
02:56:40,469 --> 02:56:37,920
uh

4714
02:56:41,750 --> 02:56:40,479
interested in what you had done and how

4715
02:56:44,230 --> 02:56:41,760
you had done

4716
02:56:46,070 --> 02:56:44,240
the long-form interviews and it just

4717
02:56:47,510 --> 02:56:46,080
opened my eyes cause

4718
02:56:49,269 --> 02:56:47,520
again it's like so many things you know

4719
02:56:51,349 --> 02:56:49,279
you have a block you go oh yeah nobody

4720
02:56:52,950 --> 02:56:51,359
wants to listen to more than an hour

4721
02:56:55,990 --> 02:56:52,960
and then you see somebody who just

4722
02:56:58,389 --> 02:56:56,000
really opens somebody up and it goes and

4723
02:57:00,389 --> 02:56:58,399
it grows yeah but you have taken notice

4724
02:57:01,590 --> 02:57:00,399
that the second show is often the

4725
02:57:04,710 --> 02:57:01,600
breakthrough

4726
02:57:05,510 --> 02:57:04,720
exactly but you did one-hour shows

4727
02:57:06,550 --> 02:57:05,520
well

4728
02:57:08,950 --> 02:57:06,560
because

4729
02:57:10,230 --> 02:57:08,960
but again see that's where you kind of

4730
02:57:13,349 --> 02:57:10,240
learn from other people and i learned

4731
02:57:15,990 --> 02:57:13,359
from you so yeah i i thought

4732
02:57:18,230 --> 02:57:16,000
my mindset was yeah you need more time

4733
02:57:19,590 --> 02:57:18,240
but you can't do it more than an hour

4734
02:57:23,590 --> 02:57:19,600
you can't do it more than an hour at a

4735
02:57:25,830 --> 02:57:23,600
time and what you've shown with these

4736
02:57:28,070 --> 02:57:25,840
kind of deep dive kind of things

4737
02:57:29,830 --> 02:57:28,080
and then brogan you know really broke

4738
02:57:32,389 --> 02:57:29,840
the mold too no one thought they could

4739
02:57:34,070 --> 02:57:32,399
do that thing and it i don't think you

4740
02:57:35,830 --> 02:57:34,080
were copying from rogan i think you guys

4741
02:57:38,469 --> 02:57:35,840
bought no no i wasn't aware of him when

4742
02:57:40,710 --> 02:57:38,479
i started right right so anyways you

4743
02:57:42,870 --> 02:57:40,720
know you you understood that in a way

4744
02:57:44,870 --> 02:57:42,880
that i didn't understand and the other

4745
02:57:45,830 --> 02:57:44,880
thing i discovered is second shows don't

4746
02:57:49,750 --> 02:57:45,840
work

4747
02:57:51,830 --> 02:57:49,760
doesn't that that idea for the format

4748
02:57:53,110 --> 02:57:51,840
doesn't work what does work is the

4749
02:57:55,670 --> 02:57:53,120
longer show

4750
02:57:58,309 --> 02:57:55,680
where you kind of let people spend an

4751
02:58:01,750 --> 02:57:58,319
hour to to to wear them down and then

4752
02:58:05,030 --> 02:58:03,590
that's a business secret

4753
02:58:07,190 --> 02:58:05,040
yes it is

4754
02:58:09,830 --> 02:58:07,200
no but i i learned one thing from you i

4755
02:58:11,990 --> 02:58:09,840
learned it very late unfortunately i i'm

4756
02:58:15,030 --> 02:58:12,000
trying to implement it now and that's

4757
02:58:17,429 --> 02:58:15,040
let the guest empty himself for the

4758
02:58:19,590 --> 02:58:17,439
first part of the interview let him say

4759
02:58:22,150 --> 02:58:19,600
all the stuff without interrupting and

4760
02:58:24,790 --> 02:58:22,160
then you can start to tangle with the

4761
02:58:27,349 --> 02:58:24,800
guests much more and and do their

4762
02:58:29,510 --> 02:58:27,359
so-called interruptions and even push

4763
02:58:31,349 --> 02:58:29,520
them a little etc i don't know if that's

4764
02:58:33,030 --> 02:58:31,359
a deliberate i've asked you before you

4765
02:58:35,190 --> 02:58:33,040
never gave a clear answer i don't know

4766
02:58:37,110 --> 02:58:35,200
if that's a deliberate model you used or

4767
02:58:38,710 --> 02:58:37,120
if it just grew to that or if it's

4768
02:58:40,870 --> 02:58:38,720
you're just unconscious

4769
02:58:43,670 --> 02:58:40,880
but it's brilliant man and i'm gonna

4770
02:58:46,389 --> 02:58:43,680
copy it and and try to do it more like

4771
02:58:48,469 --> 02:58:46,399
that in my my long-form shows

4772
02:58:49,990 --> 02:58:48,479
nice yeah i don't know that i've always

4773
02:58:51,750 --> 02:58:50,000
followed that but you're definitely

4774
02:58:53,990 --> 02:58:51,760
right i've learned that the hard way you

4775
02:58:55,750 --> 02:58:54,000
know isn't it okay i mean everybody's

4776
02:58:57,750 --> 02:58:55,760
like that you know i mean it's no no no

4777
02:58:59,510 --> 02:58:57,760
no no i would say everybody

4778
02:59:02,469 --> 02:58:59,520
people do this in completely different

4779
02:59:04,710 --> 02:59:02,479
ways everybody needs everybody needs

4780
02:59:06,389 --> 02:59:04,720
what it does is when you go on a show

4781
02:59:07,670 --> 02:59:06,399
and you've been on enough shows and

4782
02:59:09,269 --> 02:59:07,680
you're probably not like this because

4783
02:59:11,110 --> 02:59:09,279
you do a show but if you've just written

4784
02:59:13,110 --> 02:59:11,120
a book and you don't do a lot of shows

4785
02:59:15,510 --> 02:59:13,120
one of your big frustr one of your big

4786
02:59:17,990 --> 02:59:15,520
anxieties is am i gonna get a chance to

4787
02:59:19,110 --> 02:59:18,000
get my message out you know right so if

4788
02:59:21,670 --> 02:59:19,120
you kind of

4789
02:59:23,429 --> 02:59:21,680
if that happens at the beginning then

4790
02:59:24,630 --> 02:59:23,439
there it kind of shifts like you're

4791
02:59:27,510 --> 02:59:24,640
saying you know then there's a shift and

4792
02:59:30,070 --> 02:59:27,520
people go okay yeah i got my message out

4793
02:59:31,590 --> 02:59:30,080
and he plugged the book and he asked me

4794
02:59:33,590 --> 02:59:31,600
questions about the book okay so now

4795
02:59:35,349 --> 02:59:33,600
he's asking me other stuff okay i can

4796
02:59:37,830 --> 02:59:35,359
let my guard down right

4797
02:59:40,710 --> 02:59:37,840
right i always make sure when it's like

4798
02:59:43,030 --> 02:59:40,720
more like a book thing

4799
02:59:45,429 --> 02:59:43,040
like i know the guy at the other end is

4800
02:59:48,070 --> 02:59:45,439
doing the rounds because it's a new book

4801
02:59:50,150 --> 02:59:48,080
i mean i i'm not uh advertisement shows

4802
02:59:53,190 --> 02:59:50,160
i'm not having them on for that but when

4803
02:59:55,750 --> 02:59:53,200
that that's one of their agendas

4804
02:59:57,349 --> 02:59:55,760
um i always say to them and of course at

4805
02:59:59,269 --> 02:59:57,359
the end of the show we're going to plug

4806
03:00:01,110 --> 02:59:59,279
the book and we're going to plug all the

4807
03:00:03,750 --> 03:00:01,120
books and blah blah blah so that they

4808
03:00:06,389 --> 03:00:03,760
know they calm down but i'll tell you

4809
03:00:08,550 --> 03:00:06,399
one time you didn't do that i mean that

4810
03:00:10,870 --> 03:00:08,560
format that i talked about

4811
03:00:12,550 --> 03:00:10,880
and perhaps that can explain some of the

4812
03:00:14,710 --> 03:00:12,560
outcome of the show

4813
03:00:18,389 --> 03:00:14,720
that's when you had on the very

4814
03:00:20,630 --> 03:00:18,399
fascinating sweet man called tam what's

4815
03:00:22,790 --> 03:00:20,640
his name the guy who was

4816
03:00:24,389 --> 03:00:22,800
i mean he has a talking about the deep

4817
03:00:28,950 --> 03:00:24,399
and he was

4818
03:00:33,110 --> 03:00:31,030
he was in everything as cia

4819
03:00:34,950 --> 03:00:33,120
whitley schreiber yeah yeah you didn't

4820
03:00:37,349 --> 03:00:34,960
do it there

4821
03:00:39,830 --> 03:00:37,359
on which one hit remember i mean you had

4822
03:00:43,190 --> 03:00:39,840
several the one that was turned a little

4823
03:00:46,309 --> 03:00:43,200
funny where you wanted to go full roman

4824
03:00:48,469 --> 03:00:46,319
jesus on him and he could relate so much

4825
03:00:49,990 --> 03:00:48,479
too you know what hey

4826
03:00:51,670 --> 03:00:50,000
god i don't know this is going to be

4827
03:00:54,309 --> 03:00:51,680
boring as heck for people just all these

4828
03:00:56,790 --> 03:00:54,319
old stories but whitley's a very recent

4829
03:00:58,710 --> 03:00:56,800
story in terms of skeptico and whitley

4830
03:01:00,870 --> 03:00:58,720
strieber is a super

4831
03:01:03,590 --> 03:01:00,880
important person

4832
03:01:06,950 --> 03:01:03,600
in our culture in our whole entire

4833
03:01:09,349 --> 03:01:06,960
culture he is super super important guy

4834
03:01:11,750 --> 03:01:09,359
he wrote the book communion which was a

4835
03:01:13,910 --> 03:01:11,760
phenomenal international bestseller but

4836
03:01:15,990 --> 03:01:13,920
it wasn't just a bestseller it was a

4837
03:01:17,510 --> 03:01:16,000
culture changer it was in the bookstores

4838
03:01:19,510 --> 03:01:17,520
and people walked by and they saw that

4839
03:01:21,670 --> 03:01:19,520
picture of an alien and they went oh my

4840
03:01:23,429 --> 03:01:21,680
god it brought back memories of them

4841
03:01:24,710 --> 03:01:23,439
being abducted and this happened so many

4842
03:01:26,389 --> 03:01:24,720
times

4843
03:01:27,990 --> 03:01:26,399
well whitley has a very interesting

4844
03:01:30,870 --> 03:01:28,000
background too

4845
03:01:33,590 --> 03:01:30,880
whitley was mk altered man right right

4846
03:01:34,710 --> 03:01:33,600
and like if people can't get there like

4847
03:01:36,230 --> 03:01:34,720
like we're doing this whole

4848
03:01:38,389 --> 03:01:36,240
retrospective you know kind of thing

4849
03:01:41,670 --> 03:01:38,399
which is so awesome but like i would

4850
03:01:45,030 --> 03:01:41,680
have i could have never used those words

4851
03:01:46,710 --> 03:01:45,040
you know 10 15 years ago he was mk ultra

4852
03:01:48,550 --> 03:01:46,720
i could have never said it with just the

4853
03:01:50,309 --> 03:01:48,560
matter of fact way i'm saying it now but

4854
03:01:51,670 --> 03:01:50,319
it's the truth and that's what he says

4855
03:01:53,590 --> 03:01:51,680
that's what he says happened to him and

4856
03:01:56,309 --> 03:01:53,600
then you can say well oh he's making

4857
03:01:58,710 --> 03:01:56,319
that up that's not credible well it

4858
03:02:01,190 --> 03:01:58,720
would be less credible

4859
03:02:03,349 --> 03:02:01,200
if we didn't have concrete evidence that

4860
03:02:05,750 --> 03:02:03,359
they were mk altering all sorts of

4861
03:02:08,230 --> 03:02:05,760
people and then some of them went on to

4862
03:02:09,830 --> 03:02:08,240
be serial killers and you know all the

4863
03:02:11,349 --> 03:02:09,840
rest of this stuff so

4864
03:02:14,630 --> 03:02:11,359
once you start unpacking that and then

4865
03:02:16,230 --> 03:02:14,640
you put that into the lens of e.t

4866
03:02:17,830 --> 03:02:16,240
you know then you got this other thing

4867
03:02:19,670 --> 03:02:17,840
but then

4868
03:02:21,830 --> 03:02:19,680
you gotta listen you gotta go full

4869
03:02:24,230 --> 03:02:21,840
skeptical on it you say whitley that

4870
03:02:27,750 --> 03:02:24,240
doesn't give you a pass for

4871
03:02:30,030 --> 03:02:27,760
then hypothesizing that the roman

4872
03:02:32,150 --> 03:02:30,040
collapse was due to

4873
03:02:34,070 --> 03:02:32,160
environmentalism and the same kind of

4874
03:02:35,110 --> 03:02:34,080
thing we're facing with global warming

4875
03:02:37,429 --> 03:02:35,120
today

4876
03:02:39,190 --> 03:02:37,439
full stop global warming isn't supported

4877
03:02:41,269 --> 03:02:39,200
by the science the science doesn't

4878
03:02:42,950 --> 03:02:41,279
support that all those islands they said

4879
03:02:45,190 --> 03:02:42,960
they were going to be flooded they're

4880
03:02:47,349 --> 03:02:45,200
not flooded they're still there

4881
03:02:49,510 --> 03:02:47,359
antarctica go look at the satellite

4882
03:02:52,389 --> 03:02:49,520
photos of the ice there's more ice there

4883
03:02:55,030 --> 03:02:52,399
now than there was 30 years ago or 25

4884
03:02:56,630 --> 03:02:55,040
years ago when our

4885
03:02:59,190 --> 03:02:56,640
but now it's climate change you know

4886
03:03:01,030 --> 03:02:59,200
because then they they don't have to

4887
03:03:03,990 --> 03:03:01,040
stay the point is to say whitley

4888
03:03:06,950 --> 03:03:04,000
strieber is phenomenal person he's a

4889
03:03:08,550 --> 03:03:06,960
cult culturally he's super important and

4890
03:03:09,590 --> 03:03:08,560
what he's done and he's telling the

4891
03:03:10,469 --> 03:03:09,600
truth

4892
03:03:13,269 --> 03:03:10,479
but

4893
03:03:18,630 --> 03:03:13,279
he's not right about

4894
03:03:21,190 --> 03:03:18,640
right i mean maybe he's right maybe he's

4895
03:03:23,349 --> 03:03:21,200
wrong i don't know but he's got to stand

4896
03:03:24,710 --> 03:03:23,359
up and he's got to take the grilling and

4897
03:03:26,070 --> 03:03:24,720
i think he was really surprised because

4898
03:03:27,590 --> 03:03:26,080
we're getting along on all this other

4899
03:03:29,990 --> 03:03:27,600
stuff and i go wait you can't go there

4900
03:03:32,469 --> 03:03:30,000
yeah you had it on before with a more

4901
03:03:34,389 --> 03:03:32,479
harmonious interview but i think you my

4902
03:03:36,309 --> 03:03:34,399
point was just that you were derivating

4903
03:03:37,030 --> 03:03:36,319
from the formula there

4904
03:03:38,870 --> 03:03:37,040
so

4905
03:03:40,630 --> 03:03:38,880
maybe if he had to empty he was

4906
03:03:42,630 --> 03:03:40,640
frustrated that he couldn't tell you

4907
03:03:44,469 --> 03:03:42,640
what the book was about you you didn't

4908
03:03:47,349 --> 03:03:44,479
seem interested in that so

4909
03:03:49,510 --> 03:03:47,359
if he had gotten that first period to

4910
03:03:51,670 --> 03:03:49,520
empty himself and then you'd

4911
03:03:53,349 --> 03:03:51,680
you know go joseph or someone him maybe

4912
03:03:55,349 --> 03:03:53,359
it would be different but it was just an

4913
03:03:57,349 --> 03:03:55,359
example maybe it's not important maybe

4914
03:03:59,990 --> 03:03:57,359
it would the the point being i i know

4915
03:04:02,150 --> 03:04:00,000
what you're saying with regard to that

4916
03:04:05,510 --> 03:04:02,160
but it's like one of my pet peeves this

4917
03:04:09,190 --> 03:04:05,520
is more inside baseball podcaster stuff

4918
03:04:10,790 --> 03:04:09,200
is that people who feel like uh because

4919
03:04:13,429 --> 03:04:10,800
they've written a book

4920
03:04:14,710 --> 03:04:13,439
that all the questions you know have to

4921
03:04:17,269 --> 03:04:14,720
be

4922
03:04:19,110 --> 03:04:17,279
directly out of the book you know i

4923
03:04:20,550 --> 03:04:19,120
always remember when i interviewed a

4924
03:04:22,710 --> 03:04:20,560
colonel uh

4925
03:04:25,110 --> 03:04:22,720
colonel john alexander who is super

4926
03:04:27,670 --> 03:04:25,120
interesting super super interesting guy

4927
03:04:30,309 --> 03:04:27,680
an important guy in the whole ufo thing

4928
03:04:32,150 --> 03:04:30,319
and i did a very fair job on his book

4929
03:04:33,590 --> 03:04:32,160
and then i kind of grilled him on some

4930
03:04:36,070 --> 03:04:33,600
really really hard quests he got really

4931
03:04:37,990 --> 03:04:36,080
mad at me at the end i know people and

4932
03:04:40,550 --> 03:04:38,000
this kind of thing but

4933
03:04:42,469 --> 03:04:40,560
you know i i think was like hey you had

4934
03:04:44,389 --> 03:04:42,479
a shot right i pumped your book i

4935
03:04:47,190 --> 03:04:44,399
promoted your book i announced your book

4936
03:04:49,910 --> 03:04:47,200
a bunch of times you got your part now i

4937
03:04:51,750 --> 03:04:49,920
got my part i get to ask my questions

4938
03:04:52,870 --> 03:04:51,760
same with whitley really was the same

4939
03:04:54,790 --> 03:04:52,880
with whitley

4940
03:04:57,670 --> 03:04:54,800
just whitley if you let him he'll go on

4941
03:04:59,110 --> 03:04:57,680
and on and on and like like it's just

4942
03:05:01,269 --> 03:04:59,120
like this is the way it is because i

4943
03:05:03,110 --> 03:05:01,279
wrote it down in a book well

4944
03:05:05,110 --> 03:05:03,120
not exactly

4945
03:05:08,070 --> 03:05:05,120
yeah no there's there's always a little

4946
03:05:11,670 --> 03:05:08,080
quid pro quo in those um settings i

4947
03:05:12,550 --> 03:05:11,680
agree but my point is that 3-0

4948
03:05:15,670 --> 03:05:12,560
was

4949
03:05:18,469 --> 03:05:15,680
digging deep into conspiracies into ufos

4950
03:05:20,870 --> 03:05:18,479
into all these taboos

4951
03:05:24,309 --> 03:05:20,880
that exist there and i would say the

4952
03:05:26,710 --> 03:05:24,319
transition to 4-0 is more

4953
03:05:28,790 --> 03:05:26,720
there's an important nuance i think you

4954
03:05:30,469 --> 03:05:28,800
think you're still stuck to 3-0 no

4955
03:05:33,190 --> 03:05:30,479
you're not you're at 4-0 and i'll

4956
03:05:34,950 --> 03:05:33,200
explain you what 4-0 is but before that

4957
03:05:37,990 --> 03:05:34,960
listen to this

4958
03:05:40,389 --> 03:05:38,000
many congratulations to alex and

4959
03:05:43,910 --> 03:05:40,399
happy birthday skeptico you don't look a

4960
03:05:46,550 --> 03:05:43,920
day over nine uh yeah this is gordon

4961
03:05:49,910 --> 03:05:46,560
from roon soup and i just thinking back

4962
03:05:51,910 --> 03:05:49,920
i guess on my skeptico journey and i

4963
03:05:54,070 --> 03:05:51,920
can't even remember

4964
03:05:57,349 --> 03:05:54,080
when it began

4965
03:06:00,309 --> 03:05:57,359
i don't remember when or how i found

4966
03:06:02,389 --> 03:06:00,319
skeptico but it was about a decade ago

4967
03:06:03,590 --> 03:06:02,399
uh and i remember when i did because i

4968
03:06:06,389 --> 03:06:03,600
was still

4969
03:06:09,190 --> 03:06:06,399
having those long london commutes uh

4970
03:06:10,950 --> 03:06:09,200
alex's voice and his quest

4971
03:06:14,950 --> 03:06:10,960
uh and his

4972
03:06:18,070 --> 03:06:14,960
continuous seeking were just eye-opening

4973
03:06:20,230 --> 03:06:18,080
and and wonderful on uh i got two hours

4974
03:06:22,469 --> 03:06:20,240
a day uh which means by the time i found

4975
03:06:25,830 --> 03:06:22,479
a skeptico i uh

4976
03:06:26,710 --> 03:06:25,840
i was able to plumb the back catalog and

4977
03:06:29,590 --> 03:06:26,720
uh

4978
03:06:30,790 --> 03:06:29,600
and really and really you know keep up

4979
03:06:33,190 --> 03:06:30,800
to date with it

4980
03:06:34,870 --> 03:06:33,200
ever uh ever since then and so it's i

4981
03:06:35,990 --> 03:06:34,880
mean this is an amazing achievement and

4982
03:06:38,150 --> 03:06:36,000
i guess

4983
03:06:40,309 --> 03:06:38,160
being a podcaster as well

4984
03:06:43,830 --> 03:06:40,319
one of the things that i guess i take

4985
03:06:45,990 --> 03:06:43,840
most from my journey with or experience

4986
03:06:49,510 --> 03:06:46,000
with skeptico is really inspiration i

4987
03:06:51,910 --> 03:06:49,520
suppose what i love about skeptico and

4988
03:06:53,990 --> 03:06:51,920
alex in general is that he

4989
03:06:55,510 --> 03:06:54,000
has the guests that he wants to have he

4990
03:06:56,550 --> 03:06:55,520
has the discussions that he wants to

4991
03:06:58,790 --> 03:06:56,560
have

4992
03:07:01,110 --> 03:06:58,800
and and he goes on the quests that he

4993
03:07:02,710 --> 03:07:01,120
wants to go on and that you know as a

4994
03:07:06,070 --> 03:07:02,720
fellow creator is really really

4995
03:07:10,070 --> 03:07:06,080
inspirational it doesn't skeptical never

4996
03:07:12,230 --> 03:07:10,080
falls into that formulaic format of

4997
03:07:13,510 --> 03:07:12,240
someone's got a book out

4998
03:07:15,110 --> 03:07:13,520
and then they they do the rounds of

4999
03:07:17,269 --> 03:07:15,120
shows that might happen

5000
03:07:19,110 --> 03:07:17,279
but generally it's the things that alex

5001
03:07:20,389 --> 03:07:19,120
wants to explore and alex wants to talk

5002
03:07:22,469 --> 03:07:20,399
about and i think that's why we all

5003
03:07:26,790 --> 03:07:22,479
stick with it right because

5004
03:07:28,389 --> 03:07:26,800
we are following along with a sincere

5005
03:07:29,830 --> 03:07:28,399
seeker

5006
03:07:32,469 --> 03:07:29,840
with no

5007
03:07:33,670 --> 03:07:32,479
other motivation other than the seeking

5008
03:07:36,469 --> 03:07:33,680
so once again

5009
03:07:39,590 --> 03:07:36,479
congratulations many happy returns happy

5010
03:07:43,590 --> 03:07:39,600
birthday to one of the best podcasts out

5011
03:07:46,230 --> 03:07:43,600
there and uh and long may it continue

5012
03:07:49,670 --> 03:07:46,240
of course that's gordon white from the

5013
03:07:52,389 --> 03:07:49,680
brilliant blog slash podcast roon soup

5014
03:07:54,710 --> 03:07:52,399
it's it's funny alex because

5015
03:07:58,469 --> 03:07:54,720
we're talking about the other guys that

5016
03:08:02,550 --> 03:07:58,479
like if gordon is very dry

5017
03:08:05,030 --> 03:08:02,560
and if the gramerica forks is on the

5018
03:08:08,150 --> 03:08:05,040
pole opposites very loose

5019
03:08:10,230 --> 03:08:08,160
then uh i i would put greg carl wood uh

5020
03:08:12,469 --> 03:08:10,240
somewhere in between

5021
03:08:14,790 --> 03:08:12,479
those two polls

5022
03:08:16,550 --> 03:08:14,800
yes maybe you don't agree okay no no

5023
03:08:18,790 --> 03:08:16,560
it's it's it's fine

5024
03:08:21,750 --> 03:08:18,800
it's so it's so awesome hearing from

5025
03:08:23,349 --> 03:08:21,760
these people uh it's it's so so

5026
03:08:26,070 --> 03:08:23,359
nice of you to do this it really is so

5027
03:08:28,150 --> 03:08:26,080
what was your i mean gordon even i i

5028
03:08:30,070 --> 03:08:28,160
know i'm doing it now guest hosting how

5029
03:08:32,309 --> 03:08:30,080
did he end up guest hosting how did you

5030
03:08:34,389 --> 03:08:32,319
connect gordon just reached out like he

5031
03:08:37,750 --> 03:08:34,399
said he had heard the show and you know

5032
03:08:40,630 --> 03:08:37,760
it was topics he was interested in and

5033
03:08:42,389 --> 03:08:40,640
yeah did he have his famous blog then or

5034
03:08:43,750 --> 03:08:42,399
no well gordon

5035
03:08:45,910 --> 03:08:43,760
let me correct that let me correct that

5036
03:08:47,670 --> 03:08:45,920
he might have had he no i don't think he

5037
03:08:48,950 --> 03:08:47,680
had i'm almost sure he didn't have roon

5038
03:08:50,710 --> 03:08:48,960
soup but he definitely didn't have a

5039
03:08:53,910 --> 03:08:50,720
podcast who had done any interviews no

5040
03:08:55,830 --> 03:08:53,920
because he started when i started in 15.

5041
03:08:56,550 --> 03:08:55,840
and he got interested in it and i was

5042
03:08:57,990 --> 03:08:56,560
like

5043
03:08:59,750 --> 03:08:58,000
he was a little bit hesitant and i said

5044
03:09:02,389 --> 03:08:59,760
hey why don't you do

5045
03:09:04,870 --> 03:09:02,399
want your guest host skeptico is kind of

5046
03:09:07,429 --> 03:09:04,880
a way to kind of ah so he did that

5047
03:09:09,349 --> 03:09:07,439
before he launched his own right

5048
03:09:11,429 --> 03:09:09,359
interesting interesting

5049
03:09:13,429 --> 03:09:11,439
yeah because and i know he had his

5050
03:09:16,150 --> 03:09:13,439
famous blog that people were following

5051
03:09:18,550 --> 03:09:16,160
people were big on blogs and all this

5052
03:09:21,030 --> 03:09:18,560
well a little older days there now well

5053
03:09:23,910 --> 03:09:21,040
they still kind of are but blogs were a

5054
03:09:26,389 --> 03:09:23,920
big thing uh for a while very hyped

5055
03:09:29,830 --> 03:09:26,399
he had some success with this and then

5056
03:09:31,910 --> 03:09:29,840
he went full podcast and i i'm not put

5057
03:09:33,990 --> 03:09:31,920
words in his mouth he spoke for himself

5058
03:09:35,990 --> 03:09:34,000
but he did mention the word inspiration

5059
03:09:37,110 --> 03:09:36,000
and i do think you've influenced a lot

5060
03:09:43,510 --> 03:09:37,120
of

5061
03:09:45,670 --> 03:09:43,520
started after you i mean

5062
03:09:46,790 --> 03:09:45,680
most most of the internet started after

5063
03:09:52,229 --> 03:09:46,800
you

5064
03:09:55,670 --> 03:09:52,239
kind of dip into stuff

5065
03:09:57,590 --> 03:09:55,680
gordon's brilliant and uh his writing is

5066
03:10:00,550 --> 03:09:57,600
phenomenal and i always

5067
03:10:02,309 --> 03:10:00,560
i always thought his blog was fantastic

5068
03:10:04,229 --> 03:10:02,319
and i like his podcast too but his

5069
03:10:05,830 --> 03:10:04,239
writing is just really the thin red line

5070
03:10:08,550 --> 03:10:05,840
i i was really

5071
03:10:10,229 --> 03:10:08,560
a bummer when he uh when he ended that

5072
03:10:12,790 --> 03:10:10,239
little newsletter that he used to do but

5073
03:10:15,750 --> 03:10:12,800
still a lot of great stuff yeah

5074
03:10:19,030 --> 03:10:15,760
and the reason i wanted to play him now

5075
03:10:22,150 --> 03:10:19,040
was that he uh is symbolic i think of

5076
03:10:24,469 --> 03:10:22,160
skeptical for all because if in 3-0

5077
03:10:27,830 --> 03:10:24,479
you you have realized the game is rigged

5078
03:10:29,510 --> 03:10:27,840
now you want to explore all these

5079
03:10:31,510 --> 03:10:29,520
crazy things

5080
03:10:35,110 --> 03:10:31,520
you want to go behind the crazy line

5081
03:10:39,510 --> 03:10:35,120
that you do very well in 3-0

5082
03:10:41,670 --> 03:10:39,520
but in 4-0 it's becoming more

5083
03:10:43,910 --> 03:10:41,680
existential

5084
03:10:46,150 --> 03:10:43,920
now you know it's a conspiracy now you

5085
03:10:48,870 --> 03:10:46,160
have to understand why is the game

5086
03:10:51,910 --> 03:10:48,880
rigged why is there so you're becoming

5087
03:10:54,630 --> 03:10:51,920
more philosophical i perceive

5088
03:10:56,710 --> 03:10:54,640
you're meeting me in this space and

5089
03:10:58,710 --> 03:10:56,720
gordon i think is a good representative

5090
03:11:01,429 --> 03:10:58,720
of that space

5091
03:11:04,870 --> 03:11:01,439
and um let's just let's just listen to

5092
03:11:07,750 --> 03:11:04,880
your account of skeptical 40

5093
03:11:10,229 --> 03:11:07,760
existentialism philosophy as i call it

5094
03:11:11,269 --> 03:11:10,239
you do it by asking for essential

5095
03:11:13,030 --> 03:11:11,279
questions

5096
03:11:15,190 --> 03:11:13,040
bear with us folks it's one of the last

5097
03:11:17,590 --> 03:11:15,200
clips but it's it's a long one but it's

5098
03:11:19,910 --> 03:11:17,600
an excellent one it really it really

5099
03:11:21,910 --> 03:11:19,920
nails everything down for your journey

5100
03:11:23,990 --> 03:11:21,920
up to this point here

5101
03:11:26,150 --> 03:11:24,000
when you read this four essential

5102
03:11:31,030 --> 03:11:26,160
questions

5103
03:11:33,429 --> 03:11:31,040
now in terms of what i'm thinking about

5104
03:11:35,269 --> 03:11:33,439
with future shows and as i've said all

5105
03:11:38,070 --> 03:11:35,279
along about skeptico i've always viewed

5106
03:11:40,070 --> 03:11:38,080
this as my personal journey shared with

5107
03:11:41,910 --> 03:11:40,080
you but that's holding something back

5108
03:11:44,389 --> 03:11:41,920
because it's really a collective journey

5109
03:11:47,190 --> 03:11:44,399
your input and your feedback really does

5110
03:11:49,429 --> 03:11:47,200
make this an interactive process for me

5111
03:11:51,910 --> 03:11:49,439
but i'd like to hold on to the idea that

5112
03:11:54,630 --> 03:11:51,920
this really is my personal journey and i

5113
03:11:56,870 --> 03:11:54,640
decide where it goes so if you'll allow

5114
03:11:59,349 --> 03:11:56,880
me that little kind of egocentric kind

5115
03:12:01,750 --> 03:11:59,359
of thing i'm going to hold on to what i

5116
03:12:04,790 --> 03:12:01,760
think are the four questions that are

5117
03:12:07,670 --> 03:12:04,800
driving me forward in terms of skeptico

5118
03:12:09,190 --> 03:12:07,680
at this point question number one are we

5119
03:12:11,510 --> 03:12:09,200
biological robots in a minimalist

5120
03:12:12,710 --> 03:12:11,520
universe as you know from listening to

5121
03:12:15,670 --> 03:12:12,720
this show

5122
03:12:17,830 --> 03:12:15,680
that really isn't the question for me

5123
03:12:20,469 --> 03:12:17,840
anymore i mean it really was my question

5124
03:12:23,670 --> 03:12:20,479
initially a few years back but now the

5125
03:12:27,429 --> 03:12:23,680
question for me is how can this still be

5126
03:12:28,950 --> 03:12:27,439
propped up as a real question among what

5127
03:12:32,309 --> 03:12:28,960
are supposed to be the intellectual

5128
03:12:35,190 --> 03:12:32,319
elites of science it's really a strange

5129
03:12:38,309 --> 03:12:35,200
strange situation and i think we have to

5130
03:12:41,349 --> 03:12:38,319
continue to dive into that question head

5131
03:12:42,950 --> 03:12:41,359
on you know head on not just keep

5132
03:12:45,349 --> 03:12:42,960
proving them wrong baby proving them

5133
03:12:47,910 --> 03:12:45,359
wrong but saying how and why

5134
03:12:49,190 --> 03:12:47,920
are they promoting such nonsense so

5135
03:12:51,670 --> 03:12:49,200
that's question number one you ready for

5136
03:12:55,269 --> 03:12:51,680
question number two and it's an absolute

5137
03:12:57,190 --> 03:12:55,279
huge one is there a reality is our

5138
03:12:59,429 --> 03:12:57,200
normal i'm using air quotes there

5139
03:13:03,030 --> 03:12:59,439
psychological state to be this

5140
03:13:04,150 --> 03:13:03,040
experience of fundamental discontentment

5141
03:13:05,910 --> 03:13:04,160
and actually i don't even know how

5142
03:13:08,229 --> 03:13:05,920
anyone can deny that i mean that's just

5143
03:13:09,990 --> 03:13:08,239
everywhere that's what our culture is

5144
03:13:12,469 --> 03:13:10,000
but the second part of the question is

5145
03:13:14,389 --> 03:13:12,479
really the most significant and that is

5146
03:13:15,750 --> 03:13:14,399
is there a way to change that and let's

5147
03:13:17,190 --> 03:13:15,760
mirror that to the first half of the

5148
03:13:18,630 --> 03:13:17,200
first question the question i didn't ask

5149
03:13:20,469 --> 03:13:18,640
are we biological robots in meaningless

5150
03:13:21,590 --> 03:13:20,479
universe so the answer is obviously no

5151
03:13:23,910 --> 03:13:21,600
we're not

5152
03:13:26,469 --> 03:13:23,920
so we have this condition we're in this

5153
03:13:29,670 --> 03:13:26,479
predicament and then is this predicament

5154
03:13:32,950 --> 03:13:29,680
that our mind has created this continual

5155
03:13:34,710 --> 03:13:32,960
dialogue of fundamental dissatisfaction

5156
03:13:37,910 --> 03:13:34,720
with the way things are

5157
03:13:40,070 --> 03:13:37,920
and is it possible to change that state

5158
03:13:43,510 --> 03:13:40,080
that consciousness is it possible to

5159
03:13:45,990 --> 03:13:43,520
raise it of course this is what so many

5160
03:13:48,469 --> 03:13:46,000
spiritual teachers throughout time have

5161
03:13:51,990 --> 03:13:48,479
been telling us is possible that there

5162
03:13:54,150 --> 03:13:52,000
is a way to transcend that state and i'm

5163
03:13:55,830 --> 03:13:54,160
holding back from the any kind of talk

5164
03:13:58,150 --> 03:13:55,840
about extended consciousness at this

5165
03:13:59,990 --> 03:13:58,160
point right i'm trying to confine it to

5166
03:14:02,070 --> 03:14:00,000
our reality if you will and all these

5167
03:14:03,750 --> 03:14:02,080
terms are you can shoot holes in them as

5168
03:14:06,070 --> 03:14:03,760
we all know but these first two

5169
03:14:08,710 --> 03:14:06,080
questions have to do with our reality so

5170
03:14:12,790 --> 03:14:08,720
again question two is is it possible to

5171
03:14:16,469 --> 03:14:12,800
awaken out of that state of perpetual

5172
03:14:19,030 --> 03:14:16,479
dissatisfaction perpetual discontentment

5173
03:14:20,550 --> 03:14:19,040
with that internal dialogue that's going

5174
03:14:22,950 --> 03:14:20,560
on in our head i think that's an

5175
03:14:25,429 --> 03:14:22,960
important question that's question two

5176
03:14:27,670 --> 03:14:25,439
so the next two questions that are

5177
03:14:28,630 --> 03:14:27,680
driving the skeptico mission at this

5178
03:14:31,269 --> 03:14:28,640
point

5179
03:14:33,190 --> 03:14:31,279
have to do with this extended

5180
03:14:35,030 --> 03:14:33,200
consciousness thing that i always talk

5181
03:14:37,910 --> 03:14:35,040
about again the words don't exactly

5182
03:14:39,269 --> 03:14:37,920
match up extended from what i mean what

5183
03:14:41,190 --> 03:14:39,279
are we to make of this reality and the

5184
03:14:43,269 --> 03:14:41,200
other reality and why would we have this

5185
03:14:45,429 --> 03:14:43,279
kind of dualistic that's extended this

5186
03:14:47,670 --> 03:14:45,439
isn't all those problems but you get

5187
03:14:50,950 --> 03:14:47,680
what i mean right so

5188
03:14:53,670 --> 03:14:50,960
the third question is this transcending

5189
03:14:56,469 --> 03:14:53,680
of time and space

5190
03:14:58,950 --> 03:14:56,479
so we understand at this point that

5191
03:15:03,190 --> 03:14:58,960
there is this extended reality there's

5192
03:15:04,309 --> 03:15:03,200
an nde reality and obe reality and et

5193
03:15:09,110 --> 03:15:04,319
reality

5194
03:15:12,469 --> 03:15:09,120
stay with three letter acronyms

5195
03:15:15,910 --> 03:15:12,479
what is our relationship between

5196
03:15:19,190 --> 03:15:15,920
this reality and that reality and more

5197
03:15:21,429 --> 03:15:19,200
importantly if that other reality if one

5198
03:15:24,950 --> 03:15:21,439
of its key characteristics is that it

5199
03:15:28,389 --> 03:15:24,960
transcends space and time then what does

5200
03:15:31,190 --> 03:15:28,399
it tell us about this reality that is

5201
03:15:33,670 --> 03:15:31,200
confined to space and time and does it

5202
03:15:37,269 --> 03:15:33,680
suggest as i think it might that this

5203
03:15:39,830 --> 03:15:37,279
reality is a lesser reality if you will

5204
03:15:43,110 --> 03:15:39,840
lesser in the sense that it's further

5205
03:15:44,469 --> 03:15:43,120
away from the ultimate reality and again

5206
03:15:45,990 --> 03:15:44,479
don't pick on my words here because

5207
03:15:48,389 --> 03:15:46,000
there's no words to talk about this

5208
03:15:51,030 --> 03:15:48,399
stuff but the basic concept is

5209
03:15:53,429 --> 03:15:51,040
there seems to be a lot of evidence

5210
03:15:56,389 --> 03:15:53,439
pointing us to the ultimate paradigm

5211
03:15:57,910 --> 03:15:56,399
shift that we really are looking at

5212
03:16:01,110 --> 03:15:57,920
things from the wrong end of the

5213
03:16:03,910 --> 03:16:01,120
telescope we are in the unreal reality

5214
03:16:05,269 --> 03:16:03,920
of time and space continuum where things

5215
03:16:06,870 --> 03:16:05,279
have been locked down to work a

5216
03:16:09,429 --> 03:16:06,880
particular way so we get this particular

5217
03:16:11,190 --> 03:16:09,439
experience but anyone who's outside of

5218
03:16:13,670 --> 03:16:11,200
that says yeah you guys are on this

5219
03:16:15,349 --> 03:16:13,680
little tiny tip of this huge iceberg and

5220
03:16:17,269 --> 03:16:15,359
that's okay you can get that experience

5221
03:16:19,910 --> 03:16:17,279
but don't get too attached to it because

5222
03:16:23,349 --> 03:16:19,920
it's really such a small part of the

5223
03:16:25,269 --> 03:16:23,359
overall thing so that is i think the

5224
03:16:27,910 --> 03:16:25,279
third question for me

5225
03:16:30,550 --> 03:16:27,920
is what is the relationship between this

5226
03:16:32,550 --> 03:16:30,560
space-time reality that we occupy and we

5227
03:16:35,590 --> 03:16:32,560
play this science game in and we play

5228
03:16:37,349 --> 03:16:35,600
this skeptical dialogue questioning game

5229
03:16:39,990 --> 03:16:37,359
in what is the relationship between that

5230
03:16:42,309 --> 03:16:40,000
reality and some of these extended

5231
03:16:45,269 --> 03:16:42,319
realities that we will never know but we

5232
03:16:48,150 --> 03:16:45,279
do get bits and pieces fragments of

5233
03:16:50,150 --> 03:16:48,160
information back from so we do get

5234
03:16:52,469 --> 03:16:50,160
information back from into e-science we

5235
03:16:55,110 --> 03:16:52,479
do get information back from et contact

5236
03:16:57,349 --> 03:16:55,120
we do get information back from obe so

5237
03:16:59,269 --> 03:16:57,359
i'm asking you know what happens if we

5238
03:17:01,750 --> 03:16:59,279
filter that information through one very

5239
03:17:05,269 --> 03:17:01,760
narrow filter and that is what is the

5240
03:17:07,590 --> 03:17:05,279
relationship between our reality and the

5241
03:17:10,630 --> 03:17:07,600
larger reality that'd be kind of the

5242
03:17:13,190 --> 03:17:10,640
third question and the fourth question

5243
03:17:15,830 --> 03:17:13,200
is very much related to that and the

5244
03:17:17,830 --> 03:17:15,840
demonic part is gonna rattle a lot of

5245
03:17:20,229 --> 03:17:17,840
folks i'm sure but it is kind of

5246
03:17:22,389 --> 03:17:20,239
interesting how this brings us back full

5247
03:17:24,950 --> 03:17:22,399
circle in a way so if the opening

5248
03:17:27,190 --> 03:17:24,960
question was not are we biological

5249
03:17:29,830 --> 03:17:27,200
robots in a meaningless universe but how

5250
03:17:31,590 --> 03:17:29,840
does such a ridiculous meme remain

5251
03:17:33,670 --> 03:17:31,600
intellectually viable

5252
03:17:36,150 --> 03:17:33,680
i think gordon is kind of trying to

5253
03:17:39,429 --> 03:17:36,160
answer that question and saying hey man

5254
03:17:41,510 --> 03:17:39,439
that's the program that's the demonic

5255
03:17:44,950 --> 03:17:41,520
game but i broadened it a little bit and

5256
03:17:48,630 --> 03:17:44,960
say the question for me is what is the

5257
03:17:51,590 --> 03:17:48,640
role of deception in this process

5258
03:17:53,910 --> 03:17:51,600
and i like all of us am reluctant in

5259
03:17:55,910 --> 03:17:53,920
some ways to go there i because i'm not

5260
03:17:59,750 --> 03:17:55,920
sure it's the right question

5261
03:18:02,630 --> 03:17:59,760
but we keep bumping into that reality

5262
03:18:05,110 --> 03:18:02,640
that gnostic reality that i will create

5263
03:18:07,510 --> 03:18:05,120
better than the creator gods because the

5264
03:18:09,990 --> 03:18:07,520
creator gods are really making a mess of

5265
03:18:12,870 --> 03:18:10,000
things so there's so many layers to that

5266
03:18:16,070 --> 03:18:12,880
because as appealing as that gnostic

5267
03:18:19,510 --> 03:18:16,080
sensibility is it doesn't really give us

5268
03:18:21,990 --> 03:18:19,520
any hope of transcending outside of this

5269
03:18:25,030 --> 03:18:22,000
little street fight certainly not in the

5270
03:18:27,830 --> 03:18:25,040
way that we talk about for example nd he

5271
03:18:30,309 --> 03:18:27,840
experiences and the potential that maybe

5272
03:18:33,510 --> 03:18:30,319
exists for something that truly does

5273
03:18:35,670 --> 03:18:33,520
transcend that back alley brawl between

5274
03:18:37,990 --> 03:18:35,680
the creator gods and those of us who

5275
03:18:40,469 --> 03:18:38,000
want to create better than them so

5276
03:18:44,229 --> 03:18:40,479
bringing that back to the question is

5277
03:18:47,910 --> 03:18:44,239
what is the role of deception in all of

5278
03:18:50,150 --> 03:18:47,920
this why is there deception why is there

5279
03:18:51,750 --> 03:18:50,160
evil as we've talked about many times on

5280
03:18:53,910 --> 03:18:51,760
this show and i think this question as

5281
03:18:55,990 --> 03:18:53,920
i'm stating it here for me gets to the

5282
03:18:57,510 --> 03:18:56,000
deeper question of the nature of this

5283
03:18:59,510 --> 03:18:57,520
evil because it's one thing to say that

5284
03:19:01,670 --> 03:18:59,520
there's evil in the world and that's an

5285
03:19:03,750 --> 03:19:01,680
evildoer as our ex-president from many

5286
03:19:05,830 --> 03:19:03,760
years ago george bush said and again i'm

5287
03:19:08,790 --> 03:19:05,840
trying to bring it to more of a personal

5288
03:19:12,389 --> 03:19:08,800
journey of who are we why are we here

5289
03:19:13,910 --> 03:19:12,399
why are we clearly being deceived at

5290
03:19:16,469 --> 03:19:13,920
various points

5291
03:19:18,870 --> 03:19:16,479
in this process what is the purpose of

5292
03:19:21,269 --> 03:19:18,880
that how who does that serve and why

5293
03:19:23,349 --> 03:19:21,279
does that seem to be so much a part of

5294
03:19:25,750 --> 03:19:23,359
the processes and tricksters and all the

5295
03:19:27,670 --> 03:19:25,760
rest of that almost at every turn so

5296
03:19:29,510 --> 03:19:27,680
there's four questions for you there are

5297
03:19:31,429 --> 03:19:29,520
four questions for me i should say

5298
03:19:33,910 --> 03:19:31,439
because as i said those are the four

5299
03:19:35,830 --> 03:19:33,920
questions that are on my mind and are

5300
03:19:38,790 --> 03:19:35,840
for the most part driving my thoughts

5301
03:19:41,190 --> 03:19:38,800
and ideas in terms of who i'm talking to

5302
03:19:42,550 --> 03:19:41,200
right now and who i want to talk to and

5303
03:19:44,070 --> 03:19:42,560
it isn't always of course a perfect fit

5304
03:19:45,590 --> 03:19:44,080
because sometimes somebody pops up and i

5305
03:19:47,830 --> 03:19:45,600
want to talk to them and they come on

5306
03:19:50,630 --> 03:19:47,840
the show but i do feel good sharing with

5307
03:19:55,269 --> 03:19:50,640
you these ideas in these directions and

5308
03:19:59,269 --> 03:19:56,950
you understand uh

5309
03:20:02,469 --> 03:19:59,279
why i associate you even mention gordon

5310
03:20:05,670 --> 03:20:02,479
there so as four essential questions

5311
03:20:07,349 --> 03:20:05,680
representing skeptical 4-0

5312
03:20:10,309 --> 03:20:07,359
because here

5313
03:20:13,110 --> 03:20:10,319
as we just heard you're going full

5314
03:20:15,190 --> 03:20:13,120
philosophy full existentialism you're

5315
03:20:17,269 --> 03:20:15,200
really taking it to another level than

5316
03:20:20,550 --> 03:20:17,279
before and i i'd say

5317
03:20:23,670 --> 03:20:20,560
another example i think of

5318
03:20:25,670 --> 03:20:23,680
that kind of uh like like i associate

5319
03:20:28,150 --> 03:20:25,680
gordon to that kind of level you're

5320
03:20:30,710 --> 03:20:28,160
operating on now but also your other

5321
03:20:33,030 --> 03:20:30,720
friend um

5322
03:20:33,910 --> 03:20:33,040
miguel miguel of because

5323
03:20:37,190 --> 03:20:33,920
yeah

5324
03:20:42,229 --> 03:20:37,200
um i think hello yes i agree i'm a good

5325
03:20:44,550 --> 03:20:42,239
fit for skeptico 4.0 how's it going

5326
03:20:47,990 --> 03:20:44,560
welcome to the show megan oh we really

5327
03:20:49,429 --> 03:20:48,000
got miguel on here no it's a bot i am a

5328
03:20:51,910 --> 03:20:49,439
boss

5329
03:20:53,510 --> 03:20:51,920
he just came for the cake yeah exactly

5330
03:20:55,910 --> 03:20:53,520
exactly

5331
03:20:58,229 --> 03:20:55,920
it's pre-recorded but since i'm a pre

5332
03:21:00,389 --> 03:20:58,239
cog i'll guess every i know everything

5333
03:21:03,030 --> 03:21:00,399
you're gonna say my friend it is so

5334
03:21:06,150 --> 03:21:03,040
awesome to have you here this guy

5335
03:21:08,870 --> 03:21:06,160
al somebody has to do this for for you

5336
03:21:10,870 --> 03:21:08,880
and for oh my god everybody really it's

5337
03:21:12,790 --> 03:21:10,880
been so great it's you know reconnecting

5338
03:21:14,950 --> 03:21:12,800
with all these people and

5339
03:21:17,429 --> 03:21:14,960
that's it's super great so yeah good

5340
03:21:19,429 --> 03:21:17,439
deal yeah we were just at the point now

5341
03:21:21,269 --> 03:21:19,439
that miguel connor from eon bite

5342
03:21:23,110 --> 03:21:21,279
unnorthy creator just entered the chat

5343
03:21:25,590 --> 03:21:23,120
and we were just talking about how

5344
03:21:27,349 --> 03:21:25,600
skeptical has evolved to what we call

5345
03:21:29,030 --> 03:21:27,359
0.40

5346
03:21:31,830 --> 03:21:29,040
and i was just saying

5347
03:21:33,990 --> 03:21:31,840
i think gordon white kind of represents

5348
03:21:35,750 --> 03:21:34,000
that level of operation but i think you

5349
03:21:39,110 --> 03:21:35,760
do too miguel and

5350
03:21:41,830 --> 03:21:39,120
0.40 is alex is going much more deeper

5351
03:21:43,830 --> 03:21:41,840
into existential and philosophical

5352
03:21:46,469 --> 03:21:43,840
issues than i used to

5353
03:21:49,429 --> 03:21:46,479
well see you're talking to a guy who

5354
03:21:52,469 --> 03:21:49,439
started from that standpoint so like

5355
03:21:55,670 --> 03:21:52,479
we're trying to we're trying to bring

5356
03:21:56,469 --> 03:21:55,680
miguel back down to our world he's out

5357
03:22:00,710 --> 03:21:56,479
there

5358
03:22:04,070 --> 03:22:02,150
we're just trying to meet we're trying

5359
03:22:06,870 --> 03:22:04,080
to meet in the middle somewhere between

5360
03:22:10,389 --> 03:22:06,880
this grounded worldly

5361
03:22:12,790 --> 03:22:10,399
pursuits of truth and this

5362
03:22:16,229 --> 03:22:12,800
existential there is no truth kind of

5363
03:22:18,070 --> 03:22:16,239
thing yeah yeah the hassan sabah nothing

5364
03:22:21,190 --> 03:22:18,080
is true everything's possible

5365
03:22:23,750 --> 03:22:21,200
everything's permitted sorry but uh yeah

5366
03:22:25,030 --> 03:22:23,760
that's where the fun is i mean obviously

5367
03:22:28,309 --> 03:22:25,040
i've always thought she was doing

5368
03:22:30,790 --> 03:22:28,319
philosophical stuff i know um same with

5369
03:22:32,630 --> 03:22:30,800
al i don't see uh i really don't see a

5370
03:22:35,750 --> 03:22:32,640
separation i think we've always been

5371
03:22:37,269 --> 03:22:35,760
sort of holistic in this view

5372
03:22:38,790 --> 03:22:37,279
i mean i've done plenty of shows

5373
03:22:40,790 --> 03:22:38,800
recently on

5374
03:22:43,190 --> 03:22:40,800
simulation theory brought some

5375
03:22:44,950 --> 03:22:43,200
scientific people so uh

5376
03:22:49,269 --> 03:22:44,960
that's the beauty of being able to

5377
03:22:52,389 --> 03:22:49,279
podcast once a week or so yeah but

5378
03:22:54,630 --> 03:22:52,399
how did you discover skeptical miguel

5379
03:22:56,870 --> 03:22:54,640
i started listening here and there and

5380
03:22:59,190 --> 03:22:56,880
people started offering and then alex

5381
03:23:00,630 --> 03:22:59,200
invited me i actually looked on the

5382
03:23:04,389 --> 03:23:00,640
youtubes and

5383
03:23:06,950 --> 03:23:04,399
it was 2015 and i must admit it at first

5384
03:23:09,030 --> 03:23:06,960
i thought skeptical was an atheist show

5385
03:23:11,269 --> 03:23:09,040
i thought it was so uh

5386
03:23:13,349 --> 03:23:11,279
it was only later if you uh after

5387
03:23:15,510 --> 03:23:13,359
appearing on a show a few licks later i

5388
03:23:18,150 --> 03:23:15,520
was like oh man this dude is not a new

5389
03:23:19,910 --> 03:23:18,160
atheist i like him even more i like them

5390
03:23:22,790 --> 03:23:19,920
the first time i was on the show but it

5391
03:23:23,590 --> 03:23:22,800
was nice to see that it was far from it

5392
03:23:25,830 --> 03:23:23,600
yeah

5393
03:23:28,389 --> 03:23:25,840
coffee what was it coffee cigarettes and

5394
03:23:30,870 --> 03:23:28,399
gnosis yeah that's how it started and

5395
03:23:33,030 --> 03:23:30,880
then i don't know i had a dream years

5396
03:23:34,150 --> 03:23:33,040
ago and i wrote a short story like when

5397
03:23:36,790 --> 03:23:34,160
i was like

5398
03:23:39,510 --> 03:23:36,800
20 years old still catholic and i called

5399
03:23:41,990 --> 03:23:39,520
it was am bite and it was this sort of

5400
03:23:44,389 --> 03:23:42,000
space adventure and for some reason i i

5401
03:23:46,950 --> 03:23:44,399
decided to change the name

5402
03:23:49,510 --> 03:23:46,960
so and um but that was a while ago yeah

5403
03:23:50,550 --> 03:23:49,520
in 2015 when i met you was already a on

5404
03:23:52,630 --> 03:23:50,560
bite

5405
03:23:53,590 --> 03:23:52,640
well i remember you way back in the day

5406
03:23:57,990 --> 03:23:53,600
of

5407
03:24:00,550 --> 03:23:58,000
that scruffy look

5408
03:24:03,590 --> 03:24:00,560
when did you start miguel um i started

5409
03:24:04,950 --> 03:24:03,600
putting out podcasts probably 2006.

5410
03:24:07,110 --> 03:24:04,960
but i mean

5411
03:24:09,910 --> 03:24:07,120
it was part of free thought media which

5412
03:24:13,269 --> 03:24:09,920
was it really was a new new atheist

5413
03:24:15,750 --> 03:24:13,279
organization but again the enemy of my

5414
03:24:17,830 --> 03:24:15,760
enemies a friend so they were very happy

5415
03:24:19,750 --> 03:24:17,840
to have me on and i just started putting

5416
03:24:21,870 --> 03:24:19,760
out shows here and there

5417
03:24:24,790 --> 03:24:21,880
but again it wasn't really until

5418
03:24:26,950 --> 03:24:24,800
2018 that i started going full time with

5419
03:24:29,750 --> 03:24:26,960
it before it was just sort of i was one

5420
03:24:33,590 --> 03:24:29,760
of those periodical podcasters a show

5421
03:24:36,469 --> 03:24:33,600
here find a guest there and so forth so

5422
03:24:39,110 --> 03:24:36,479
it's amazing how time flies huh guys

5423
03:24:40,790 --> 03:24:39,120
well i don't know if it's amazing or not

5424
03:24:42,309 --> 03:24:40,800
i don't know if there's a better world

5425
03:24:45,030 --> 03:24:42,319
or not

5426
03:24:46,870 --> 03:24:45,040
i think the world went mad in 2016

5427
03:24:48,950 --> 03:24:46,880
that's when the trickster started so but

5428
03:24:51,030 --> 03:24:48,960
it's been it's been a lot of fun even

5429
03:24:53,510 --> 03:24:51,040
more fun

5430
03:24:55,750 --> 03:24:53,520
yeah we were listening to a feature from

5431
03:24:57,750 --> 03:24:55,760
the group america guys and they were

5432
03:25:00,309 --> 03:24:57,760
talking about you know

5433
03:25:03,349 --> 03:25:00,319
it looked as if we were winning

5434
03:25:05,429 --> 03:25:03,359
the battle prior to sixteen

5435
03:25:08,950 --> 03:25:05,439
uh at least in terms of the skeptical

5436
03:25:11,670 --> 03:25:08,960
crowd the new atheists but then

5437
03:25:14,630 --> 03:25:11,680
i much suddenly we realized oh this was

5438
03:25:16,950 --> 03:25:14,640
just a battle it wasn't a war

5439
03:25:19,110 --> 03:25:16,960
now we realize we're in the war

5440
03:25:20,950 --> 03:25:19,120
yeah yeah now the war has started but i

5441
03:25:22,790 --> 03:25:20,960
think we are winning i mean i think it's

5442
03:25:24,870 --> 03:25:22,800
obvious i remember

5443
03:25:26,950 --> 03:25:24,880
even talking to gordon around that time

5444
03:25:29,750 --> 03:25:26,960
gordon was saying materialism is dead

5445
03:25:30,950 --> 03:25:29,760
and it is dead i think uh the science

5446
03:25:32,790 --> 03:25:30,960
group

5447
03:25:35,190 --> 03:25:32,800
it was born dead wasn't it yeah it was i

5448
03:25:38,389 --> 03:25:35,200
mean i had new atheist friends and

5449
03:25:40,469 --> 03:25:38,399
around 2016 they were telling me

5450
03:25:42,389 --> 03:25:40,479
look uh my friends at mythicism

5451
03:25:44,950 --> 03:25:42,399
milwaukee they were telling me look

5452
03:25:48,070 --> 03:25:44,960
we've got to pivot because the reason

5453
03:25:50,469 --> 03:25:48,080
rally isn't getting people the sweet

5454
03:25:53,030 --> 03:25:50,479
talking gigs are not there yeah yeah

5455
03:25:54,550 --> 03:25:53,040
we've we've we've punched out uh

5456
03:25:56,229 --> 03:25:54,560
orthodox religions and the

5457
03:25:59,910 --> 03:25:56,239
fundamentalists really well but now

5458
03:26:01,990 --> 03:25:59,920
we're dying so we need to pivot to um

5459
03:26:03,030 --> 03:26:02,000
free speech issues and so forth and

5460
03:26:05,670 --> 03:26:03,040
obviously

5461
03:26:08,229 --> 03:26:05,680
guys you know shysters like sam harris

5462
03:26:09,870 --> 03:26:08,239
and those guys have moved on to other

5463
03:26:12,630 --> 03:26:09,880
pastures the thing is

5464
03:26:15,110 --> 03:26:12,640
2016 suddenly everything became so

5465
03:26:17,030 --> 03:26:15,120
politicized and that's the danger

5466
03:26:18,389 --> 03:26:17,040
because what's the saying in an

5467
03:26:21,510 --> 03:26:18,399
authoritarian

5468
03:26:23,590 --> 03:26:21,520
society everything is political and that

5469
03:26:25,510 --> 03:26:23,600
is nice that all three of us have we've

5470
03:26:27,590 --> 03:26:25,520
pretty much avoided the politics we've

5471
03:26:29,670 --> 03:26:27,600
kept our eye on the ball and stayed out

5472
03:26:31,590 --> 03:26:29,680
of the distractions

5473
03:26:33,910 --> 03:26:31,600
that are out there instead of just going

5474
03:26:35,910 --> 03:26:33,920
with the herd

5475
03:26:38,630 --> 03:26:35,920
well i'd have to disagree with you which

5476
03:26:40,630 --> 03:26:38,640
i'm good at doing on the materialism is

5477
03:26:43,510 --> 03:26:40,640
dead and i think that

5478
03:26:46,469 --> 03:26:43,520
anyone who thinks materialism is dead

5479
03:26:48,790 --> 03:26:46,479
just doesn't understand the extent to

5480
03:26:50,870 --> 03:26:48,800
which these guys have

5481
03:26:52,710 --> 03:26:50,880
bullets in their gun that they haven't

5482
03:26:54,469 --> 03:26:52,720
even you know

5483
03:26:57,349 --> 03:26:54,479
not only haven't even fired they haven't

5484
03:27:00,389 --> 03:26:57,359
even loaded him in the gun yet and i

5485
03:27:03,429 --> 03:27:00,399
think what's happening now with uh with

5486
03:27:05,910 --> 03:27:03,439
the reemergence of the recycling the

5487
03:27:07,110 --> 03:27:05,920
rebooting as they say in the movies of

5488
03:27:10,229 --> 03:27:07,120
climate

5489
03:27:11,750 --> 03:27:10,239
and uh of the global warming scam is is

5490
03:27:13,269 --> 03:27:11,760
evidence of that and i think what

5491
03:27:15,190 --> 03:27:13,279
they've done with the full frontal

5492
03:27:18,309 --> 03:27:15,200
assault on science

5493
03:27:21,510 --> 03:27:18,319
it with the pandemic is going to be

5494
03:27:23,950 --> 03:27:21,520
cycled back around and in a subtle way

5495
03:27:27,510 --> 03:27:23,960
is going to

5496
03:27:29,190 --> 03:27:27,520
re-energize the materialism debate by

5497
03:27:31,830 --> 03:27:29,200
not even making it center stage it's

5498
03:27:33,830 --> 03:27:31,840
going to be completely off the stage but

5499
03:27:35,910 --> 03:27:33,840
you can't really get to any of these

5500
03:27:37,990 --> 03:27:35,920
issues any of these global issues

5501
03:27:40,710 --> 03:27:38,000
anything that's global in it you you

5502
03:27:42,870 --> 03:27:40,720
can't get into the global pandemic or

5503
03:27:45,269 --> 03:27:42,880
global warming or any of that stuff

5504
03:27:46,870 --> 03:27:45,279
without materialism materialism hasn't

5505
03:27:49,510 --> 03:27:46,880
hasn't been defeated

5506
03:27:51,910 --> 03:27:49,520
yeah but but but look uh i think you

5507
03:27:52,870 --> 03:27:51,920
said this yourself alex in an interview

5508
03:27:54,870 --> 03:27:52,880
um

5509
03:27:57,349 --> 03:27:54,880
i think it was you you said that yeah we

5510
03:27:59,429 --> 03:27:57,359
may have won the debate

5511
03:28:01,750 --> 03:27:59,439
you know the the battle but they're

5512
03:28:03,269 --> 03:28:01,760
still controlling the institutions like

5513
03:28:05,670 --> 03:28:03,279
they're like wikipedia they're still

5514
03:28:07,349 --> 03:28:05,680
controlling that they they won't debate

5515
03:28:09,830 --> 03:28:07,359
anyone anymore

5516
03:28:10,710 --> 03:28:09,840
especially not after you've exposed them

5517
03:28:12,309 --> 03:28:10,720
so

5518
03:28:13,590 --> 03:28:12,319
you know you ref but you referenced the

5519
03:28:15,429 --> 03:28:13,600
interview that i did with mario

5520
03:28:17,349 --> 03:28:15,439
beauregard 10 years ago and it's funny

5521
03:28:19,030 --> 03:28:17,359
dr mario beauregard

5522
03:28:19,830 --> 03:28:19,040
from montreal

5523
03:28:22,229 --> 03:28:19,840
and

5524
03:28:24,790 --> 03:28:22,239
where he said he was optimistic 10 years

5525
03:28:26,309 --> 03:28:24,800
ago this is right directly to this point

5526
03:28:28,790 --> 03:28:26,319
that his

5527
03:28:31,429 --> 03:28:28,800
sp his talk on the intersection between

5528
03:28:34,229 --> 03:28:31,439
spirituality consciousness and how that

5529
03:28:36,469 --> 03:28:34,239
was a direct contradiction to

5530
03:28:39,030 --> 03:28:36,479
materialism was gaining more traction it

5531
03:28:41,190 --> 03:28:39,040
was gaining acceptance within academia

5532
03:28:43,990 --> 03:28:41,200
just interviewed the guy what he's now

5533
03:28:46,309 --> 03:28:44,000
said is that he realizes what a rigged

5534
03:28:48,870 --> 03:28:46,319
game right it was and what a false

5535
03:28:50,550 --> 03:28:48,880
promise it was that openness and

5536
03:28:52,550 --> 03:28:50,560
particularly you know as it relates to

5537
03:28:54,710 --> 03:28:52,560
maybe some of the more conspiracy

5538
03:28:56,229 --> 03:28:54,720
conspiratorial stuff that you and i have

5539
03:28:58,630 --> 03:28:56,239
done and miguel has touched on over the

5540
03:29:01,830 --> 03:28:58,640
years is he sees the connection with mk

5541
03:29:03,910 --> 03:29:01,840
ultra and mk ultra was deeply embedded

5542
03:29:05,269 --> 03:29:03,920
within uh mcgill

5543
03:29:08,710 --> 03:29:05,279
in in

5544
03:29:12,150 --> 03:29:08,720
quebec and just in general quebec being

5545
03:29:14,870 --> 03:29:12,160
you know kind of uh uh vichy

5546
03:29:17,750 --> 03:29:14,880
uh a vichy supporting in world war ii

5547
03:29:20,309 --> 03:29:17,760
and direct deep connections to mk ultra

5548
03:29:23,590 --> 03:29:20,319
programs so

5549
03:29:25,910 --> 03:29:23,600
to to imagine and to romanticize about

5550
03:29:28,150 --> 03:29:25,920
the idea that these guys have kind of

5551
03:29:30,229 --> 03:29:28,160
given up on the materialism that you're

5552
03:29:32,309 --> 03:29:30,239
a biologic roblox there is no divinity

5553
03:29:33,670 --> 03:29:32,319
in you so to even bother trying to

5554
03:29:35,670 --> 03:29:33,680
access it

5555
03:29:36,950 --> 03:29:35,680
i just don't think they're anywhere

5556
03:29:38,150 --> 03:29:36,960
close to that i think they have a

5557
03:29:40,150 --> 03:29:38,160
different a million different ways of

5558
03:29:42,550 --> 03:29:40,160
spinning it and i think

5559
03:29:45,349 --> 03:29:42,560
i think satanism is a perfect way of

5560
03:29:47,590 --> 03:29:45,359
really spinning

5561
03:29:49,510 --> 03:29:47,600
materialism in a way if you listen to

5562
03:29:51,349 --> 03:29:49,520
what like mitch horowitz who i had on

5563
03:29:53,110 --> 03:29:51,359
the show and he's a defender of mike

5564
03:29:54,710 --> 03:29:53,120
laquino who is the

5565
03:29:56,469 --> 03:29:54,720
verified you know over and over again

5566
03:29:58,150 --> 03:29:56,479
pedophile

5567
03:30:01,429 --> 03:29:58,160
and and he you know

5568
03:30:04,150 --> 03:30:01,439
that is that is another new thought spin

5569
03:30:06,550 --> 03:30:04,160
of materialism that gets them to kind of

5570
03:30:08,550 --> 03:30:06,560
the same point you know which is

5571
03:30:10,469 --> 03:30:08,560
don't worry about your divinity it's

5572
03:30:12,630 --> 03:30:10,479
it's it's more complicated than that and

5573
03:30:15,349 --> 03:30:12,640
let me let me tell and let me slip in

5574
03:30:17,750 --> 03:30:15,359
the transhumanism with it in a way so

5575
03:30:19,830 --> 03:30:17,760
that doesn't exactly sync up with

5576
03:30:22,389 --> 03:30:19,840
exactly where mikael is at but it's why

5577
03:30:23,590 --> 03:30:22,399
i've always loved and respected miguel's

5578
03:30:25,190 --> 03:30:23,600
work is because

5579
03:30:27,590 --> 03:30:25,200
he's deeply

5580
03:30:29,750 --> 03:30:27,600
enmeshed in exploring these topics so i

5581
03:30:30,710 --> 03:30:29,760
just stole the mic there miguel so

5582
03:30:31,910 --> 03:30:30,720
please

5583
03:30:32,870 --> 03:30:31,920
tell me what you think about that

5584
03:30:34,150 --> 03:30:32,880
because i'm always interested in what

5585
03:30:35,510 --> 03:30:34,160
other people are thinking so what's

5586
03:30:37,510 --> 03:30:35,520
going on with you and that yeah and

5587
03:30:39,750 --> 03:30:37,520
particularly miguel tell us what you're

5588
03:30:42,870 --> 03:30:39,760
thinking about the aquino michael aquino

5589
03:30:44,710 --> 03:30:42,880
thing alex is pretty decided on that

5590
03:30:47,349 --> 03:30:44,720
yeah i think i'm probably leaning

5591
03:30:49,429 --> 03:30:47,359
towards where alex is on it i haven't

5592
03:30:52,710 --> 03:30:49,439
delved as deeply as

5593
03:30:55,910 --> 03:30:52,720
he has but uh the evidence seems pretty

5594
03:30:58,550 --> 03:30:55,920
strong right there and it doesn't uh not

5595
03:30:59,830 --> 03:30:58,560
looking good but things definitely

5596
03:31:01,830 --> 03:30:59,840
change i mean

5597
03:31:05,269 --> 03:31:01,840
but i think at the same time yeah the

5598
03:31:08,150 --> 03:31:05,279
biological robot i mean we do live in an

5599
03:31:11,429 --> 03:31:08,160
era where marianne williamson actually

5600
03:31:13,830 --> 03:31:11,439
ran for president and had some traction

5601
03:31:16,150 --> 03:31:13,840
we do live in a time when somebody like

5602
03:31:18,710 --> 03:31:16,160
i don't know jordan peterson can

5603
03:31:21,590 --> 03:31:18,720
regardless what you think and sell

5604
03:31:24,710 --> 03:31:21,600
millions of books on a sort of uh

5605
03:31:26,710 --> 03:31:24,720
latter-day union kind of attitude so i

5606
03:31:29,269 --> 03:31:26,720
think things are going in but

5607
03:31:33,110 --> 03:31:29,279
but yeah i think the the narrative or

5608
03:31:34,710 --> 03:31:33,120
the the hypno the hypnotizing magic has

5609
03:31:37,269 --> 03:31:34,720
changed i think it's gone from

5610
03:31:39,590 --> 03:31:37,279
biological robot to

5611
03:31:42,950 --> 03:31:39,600
you will own nothing and like it you

5612
03:31:44,950 --> 03:31:42,960
will eat bugs and live in a pod so i

5613
03:31:46,950 --> 03:31:44,960
think they're sort of taking it with the

5614
03:31:48,309 --> 03:31:46,960
big brother will take care of you

5615
03:31:50,150 --> 03:31:48,319
instead of uh

5616
03:31:51,750 --> 03:31:50,160
you're really nothing so just be

5617
03:31:54,150 --> 03:31:51,760
debauched

5618
03:31:56,790 --> 03:31:54,160
we live in a time where sam harris is

5619
03:31:59,910 --> 03:31:56,800
meditating and we're living in a time

5620
03:32:02,950 --> 03:31:59,920
where a bunch of neil degrasse tyson is

5621
03:32:05,349 --> 03:32:02,960
admitting to a paradigm

5622
03:32:07,750 --> 03:32:05,359
you know the simulation thing

5623
03:32:08,630 --> 03:32:07,760
complete scientific well not in fiction

5624
03:32:10,950 --> 03:32:08,640
but

5625
03:32:14,469 --> 03:32:10,960
complete should i say i mean some of

5626
03:32:16,229 --> 03:32:14,479
these new fad paradigms that the

5627
03:32:17,030 --> 03:32:16,239
desperate materialists are clinging to

5628
03:32:19,269 --> 03:32:17,040
now

5629
03:32:21,590 --> 03:32:19,279
are actually much more wacko than some

5630
03:32:24,630 --> 03:32:21,600
traditional stuff

5631
03:32:25,830 --> 03:32:24,640
the number of dimensions and and really

5632
03:32:28,150 --> 03:32:25,840
how the

5633
03:32:31,429 --> 03:32:28,160
regular old stream

5634
03:32:33,429 --> 03:32:31,439
materialist paradigm is breaking apart

5635
03:32:35,510 --> 03:32:33,439
but they don't realize

5636
03:32:37,190 --> 03:32:35,520
themselves i think the philosophical

5637
03:32:39,110 --> 03:32:37,200
depths of what they're adopting and

5638
03:32:40,870 --> 03:32:39,120
flirting with now

5639
03:32:43,190 --> 03:32:40,880
because they've never been a very good

5640
03:32:44,550 --> 03:32:43,200
philosophers anyway but when you really

5641
03:32:47,269 --> 03:32:44,560
examine it

5642
03:32:49,910 --> 03:32:47,279
we've managed i mean it's a completely

5643
03:32:51,349 --> 03:32:49,920
different so there has been movement i'm

5644
03:32:54,389 --> 03:32:51,359
not talking about winning and losing

5645
03:32:56,309 --> 03:32:54,399
here but change for sure

5646
03:32:57,990 --> 03:32:56,319
but here here's the point and we're kind

5647
03:32:59,429 --> 03:32:58,000
of getting off of the whole thing that

5648
03:33:01,269 --> 03:32:59,439
we've been doing for the last three

5649
03:33:03,110 --> 03:33:01,279
hours on this awesome

5650
03:33:04,469 --> 03:33:03,120
thing that you've done for me which is

5651
03:33:05,349 --> 03:33:04,479
so super but

5652
03:33:06,950 --> 03:33:05,359
like

5653
03:33:08,790 --> 03:33:06,960
maybe if people were to get a sense of

5654
03:33:10,710 --> 03:33:08,800
what skepticals about i can't let go of

5655
03:33:12,550 --> 03:33:10,720
this mcgill i can't let go of mitch

5656
03:33:13,990 --> 03:33:12,560
horowitz who's been on your show who

5657
03:33:16,630 --> 03:33:14,000
when i asked metrowitz if he's a

5658
03:33:18,469 --> 03:33:16,640
satanist he said yeah and then i said

5659
03:33:21,110 --> 03:33:18,479
here in writing you've said one of your

5660
03:33:22,870 --> 03:33:21,120
inspirations is michael aquino and he

5661
03:33:25,429 --> 03:33:22,880
says yeah and i said yeah but michael

5662
03:33:27,670 --> 03:33:25,439
aquino has been outed as a pedophile at

5663
03:33:29,750 --> 03:33:27,680
the presidio and the

5664
03:33:31,670 --> 03:33:29,760
army report anyone can go and read these

5665
03:33:32,469 --> 03:33:31,680
declassified documents where he sued the

5666
03:33:35,030 --> 03:33:32,479
army

5667
03:33:38,150 --> 03:33:35,040
to not say he was a pedophile and the

5668
03:33:39,750 --> 03:33:38,160
army said nah there's so much evidence

5669
03:33:41,510 --> 03:33:39,760
we have all this evidence we have direct

5670
03:33:43,910 --> 03:33:41,520
testimony of

5671
03:33:46,870 --> 03:33:43,920
that shows that you lied and shows that

5672
03:33:49,030 --> 03:33:46,880
you brought kids into your house and you

5673
03:33:51,830 --> 03:33:49,040
and your wife was he arrested

5674
03:33:54,630 --> 03:33:51,840
well he he was not he was not but the

5675
03:33:57,670 --> 03:33:54,640
point is he was but if is that the

5676
03:34:00,630 --> 03:33:57,680
measure by which we're going to uh uh

5677
03:34:02,389 --> 03:34:00,640
you know evaluate these things the truth

5678
03:34:04,150 --> 03:34:02,399
would be

5679
03:34:07,110 --> 03:34:04,160
hidden in exactly the way that it's

5680
03:34:09,910 --> 03:34:07,120
hidden i think it's significant that the

5681
03:34:11,910 --> 03:34:09,920
army was not willing to back down and as

5682
03:34:14,469 --> 03:34:11,920
a matter of fact went out of the way to

5683
03:34:17,910 --> 03:34:14,479
say that it and think of that this is

5684
03:34:20,309 --> 03:34:17,920
colonel michael aquino highly highly

5685
03:34:22,229 --> 03:34:20,319
connected in many different ways with

5686
03:34:26,229 --> 03:34:22,239
people that we've already talked about

5687
03:34:29,349 --> 03:34:26,239
on this show so what's going on with the

5688
03:34:31,910 --> 03:34:29,359
satanism and materialism connection and

5689
03:34:34,309 --> 03:34:31,920
materialism is just

5690
03:34:37,110 --> 03:34:34,319
the like you said to say you will have

5691
03:34:39,030 --> 03:34:37,120
nothing and you will be happy is exactly

5692
03:34:41,269 --> 03:34:39,040
mirrors your biological robot and

5693
03:34:43,750 --> 03:34:41,279
meaningless universe i mean you are a

5694
03:34:45,990 --> 03:34:43,760
biological robot so the connection

5695
03:34:48,070 --> 03:34:46,000
between that and satanism i say satanism

5696
03:34:49,990 --> 03:34:48,080
when i use satanism i always have to add

5697
03:34:52,469 --> 03:34:50,000
the caveat i don't know what satanism

5698
03:34:54,710 --> 03:34:52,479
means i mean i'm not i don't believe in

5699
03:34:57,670 --> 03:34:54,720
the the christian dogma doctrine which

5700
03:35:00,389 --> 03:34:57,680
is the origins of that term but i

5701
03:35:03,190 --> 03:35:00,399
understand that you know mitch horowitz

5702
03:35:06,710 --> 03:35:03,200
is not standing on any kind of

5703
03:35:09,349 --> 03:35:06,720
historically solid ground when he says

5704
03:35:11,750 --> 03:35:09,359
that michael aquino is a tremendous

5705
03:35:13,990 --> 03:35:11,760
influence and then when i put the

5706
03:35:15,830 --> 03:35:14,000
pedophile pedophilia stuff out there

5707
03:35:17,510 --> 03:35:15,840
he's like no no no no that isn't true

5708
03:35:20,630 --> 03:35:17,520
that isn't true no the evidence is

5709
03:35:22,469 --> 03:35:20,640
overwhelming that it's true so i think

5710
03:35:23,429 --> 03:35:22,479
the one thing i guess that i've bumped

5711
03:35:25,830 --> 03:35:23,439
into

5712
03:35:28,630 --> 03:35:25,840
with uh with with hugh mcgill lately is

5713
03:35:30,950 --> 03:35:28,640
i think the truth-telling part of this

5714
03:35:34,150 --> 03:35:30,960
is on one hand very slippery because we

5715
03:35:36,229 --> 03:35:34,160
all know that there is no ultimate truth

5716
03:35:37,750 --> 03:35:36,239
but on the other hand i think we need to

5717
03:35:40,070 --> 03:35:37,760
clean up our

5718
03:35:42,790 --> 03:35:40,080
community and we need to clean up the

5719
03:35:45,349 --> 03:35:42,800
truther community in a number of ways

5720
03:35:47,750 --> 03:35:45,359
but part of it is nah you you're

5721
03:35:51,110 --> 03:35:47,760
responsible for saying stuff

5722
03:35:53,750 --> 03:35:51,120
that doesn't pan out and i'm i'm glad

5723
03:35:55,670 --> 03:35:53,760
that i nailed maturowicz to the cross

5724
03:35:58,389 --> 03:35:55,680
there

5725
03:36:00,389 --> 03:35:58,399
yeah i mean i like to think of i mean i

5726
03:36:03,590 --> 03:36:00,399
always like to stay

5727
03:36:06,070 --> 03:36:03,600
more as a historical person i don't want

5728
03:36:09,030 --> 03:36:06,080
us to get too much into having our own

5729
03:36:11,349 --> 03:36:09,040
sort of cancel culture i get annoyed

5730
03:36:14,070 --> 03:36:11,359
when occultists try to cancel

5731
03:36:16,870 --> 03:36:14,080
aleister crowley because again i just i

5732
03:36:20,150 --> 03:36:16,880
like to read history i like to see how

5733
03:36:22,710 --> 03:36:20,160
these figures impacted the stream of the

5734
03:36:24,469 --> 03:36:22,720
esoterica and the mainstream i mean

5735
03:36:26,950 --> 03:36:24,479
people were making arguments about

5736
03:36:28,229 --> 03:36:26,960
muhammad having a nine-year-old daughter

5737
03:36:30,469 --> 03:36:28,239
or

5738
03:36:33,349 --> 03:36:30,479
i mean every of these figures was

5739
03:36:36,229 --> 03:36:33,359
definitely mixed i mean you know i love

5740
03:36:38,870 --> 03:36:36,239
carl jung he had affairs with his wives

5741
03:36:41,630 --> 03:36:38,880
uh said some really stupid things about

5742
03:36:44,389 --> 03:36:41,640
uh other figures philip k dick was

5743
03:36:47,590 --> 03:36:44,399
pathological and a mess uh

5744
03:36:50,630 --> 03:36:47,600
so i try i mean i'm sorry i don't

5745
03:36:52,469 --> 03:36:50,640
feel we should even ignore these figures

5746
03:36:54,630 --> 03:36:52,479
they're part of a stream they have their

5747
03:36:56,790 --> 03:36:54,640
values and the last thing i want to do

5748
03:37:00,229 --> 03:36:56,800
is sort of uh cut them out like some

5749
03:37:02,469 --> 03:37:00,239
sort of stalin photograph i mean again i

5750
03:37:04,710 --> 03:37:02,479
can't judge mitch because uh quino does

5751
03:37:07,269 --> 03:37:04,720
nothing for me i just see him as another

5752
03:37:09,910 --> 03:37:07,279
historical figure i'm not a fan of the

5753
03:37:12,389 --> 03:37:09,920
church of satan because i think uh

5754
03:37:15,510 --> 03:37:12,399
one thing the biggest danger of them all

5755
03:37:18,710 --> 03:37:15,520
is the nihilism i think that's what new

5756
03:37:20,710 --> 03:37:18,720
atheism and satanism and even you know

5757
03:37:23,190 --> 03:37:20,720
you be careful zen buddhism and others

5758
03:37:25,269 --> 03:37:23,200
they do bring a form of nihilism and

5759
03:37:27,990 --> 03:37:25,279
that's where the danger is because not

5760
03:37:30,630 --> 03:37:28,000
only are we biological robots but then

5761
03:37:32,790 --> 03:37:30,640
suddenly if we're biological robots then

5762
03:37:35,990 --> 03:37:32,800
nothing matters then we can really be

5763
03:37:39,190 --> 03:37:36,000
immoral or be manipulated to do immoral

5764
03:37:41,990 --> 03:37:39,200
things to others and uh sort of live

5765
03:37:44,309 --> 03:37:42,000
this uh debauched uh

5766
03:37:46,469 --> 03:37:44,319
this debauched life when nothing matters

5767
03:37:49,030 --> 03:37:46,479
we can be that's what the marquis de

5768
03:37:51,349 --> 03:37:49,040
sade said he was an atheist and it said

5769
03:37:54,389 --> 03:37:51,359
the only thing that matters in life is

5770
03:37:56,469 --> 03:37:54,399
pleasure and we can just do anything we

5771
03:37:58,469 --> 03:37:56,479
want to each other and it won't matter

5772
03:37:59,590 --> 03:37:58,479
to me that's the biggest danger right

5773
03:38:02,070 --> 03:37:59,600
there

5774
03:38:04,070 --> 03:38:02,080
well i'm i'm with you on that and this

5775
03:38:05,190 --> 03:38:04,080
is actually an interesting discussion

5776
03:38:07,030 --> 03:38:05,200
for you

5777
03:38:09,429 --> 03:38:07,040
doing the show al because this is where

5778
03:38:11,990 --> 03:38:09,439
i'm at right now i'm with you

5779
03:38:14,950 --> 03:38:12,000
philosophically i'm with you in terms of

5780
03:38:17,349 --> 03:38:14,960
the esoteric and the mystical uh

5781
03:38:20,870 --> 03:38:17,359
understanding which is impossible to

5782
03:38:23,110 --> 03:38:20,880
always needs to have all doors open yes

5783
03:38:25,190 --> 03:38:23,120
but we also have to acknowledge

5784
03:38:26,469 --> 03:38:25,200
deception and i think we have to call

5785
03:38:28,630 --> 03:38:26,479
out deception

5786
03:38:31,349 --> 03:38:28,640
when we see it and this this has been

5787
03:38:34,469 --> 03:38:31,359
particularly brought into focus by the

5788
03:38:36,710 --> 03:38:34,479
last two years shut up and wear the mask

5789
03:38:39,429 --> 03:38:36,720
well what's the science to support that

5790
03:38:42,630 --> 03:38:39,439
idea take the jab what's the science in

5791
03:38:45,750 --> 03:38:42,640
terms of and so when we when we have a

5792
03:38:49,269 --> 03:38:45,760
total affront on science and we extend

5793
03:38:51,830 --> 03:38:49,279
that to us total assault on truth and on

5794
03:38:55,269 --> 03:38:51,840
history i think we have to hold the

5795
03:38:57,670 --> 03:38:55,279
ground there so i'm all for all the cool

5796
03:39:00,550 --> 03:38:57,680
things mitch horwitz is a fascinating

5797
03:39:02,469 --> 03:39:00,560
guy he's incredibly articulate and well

5798
03:39:03,510 --> 03:39:02,479
spoken and he's written some wonderful

5799
03:39:06,870 --> 03:39:03,520
books

5800
03:39:09,990 --> 03:39:06,880
but he's not truthful about aquino he's

5801
03:39:13,030 --> 03:39:10,000
not processing it he's not processing it

5802
03:39:15,510 --> 03:39:13,040
in a way that obviously is conforms to

5803
03:39:17,830 --> 03:39:15,520
the historical facts and when he doesn't

5804
03:39:20,550 --> 03:39:17,840
when somebody doesn't do that

5805
03:39:22,950 --> 03:39:20,560
then you have to question what is behind

5806
03:39:24,790 --> 03:39:22,960
that why are they you know we can all

5807
03:39:26,550 --> 03:39:24,800
fumble and not be informed and then we

5808
03:39:28,870 --> 03:39:26,560
get informed and we get smarter and we

5809
03:39:31,269 --> 03:39:28,880
say oh gosh i made such a mistake

5810
03:39:33,189 --> 03:39:31,279
why is he not course correcting and why

5811
03:39:35,670 --> 03:39:33,199
do we see that again and again that's

5812
03:39:38,070 --> 03:39:35,680
all what the today's news is all about

5813
03:39:39,910 --> 03:39:38,080
right oh let's move on to the next thing

5814
03:39:43,510 --> 03:39:39,920
we don't have to admit any mistakes

5815
03:39:47,429 --> 03:39:43,520
we've made that to me is a sure sign of

5816
03:39:49,510 --> 03:39:47,439
the the op that is the op so yeah i mean

5817
03:39:52,229 --> 03:39:49,520
no we have to call these people on

5818
03:39:54,469 --> 03:39:52,239
truth-telling they do have to find the

5819
03:39:56,229 --> 03:39:54,479
truth and they do have to tell the truth

5820
03:39:58,550 --> 03:39:56,239
or we should be suspicious of their

5821
03:40:00,710 --> 03:39:58,560
motives what do you think miguel

5822
03:40:02,550 --> 03:40:00,720
yeah i have faith in mitch he's he's a

5823
03:40:05,030 --> 03:40:02,560
he's a good guy and he's a good friend i

5824
03:40:08,550 --> 03:40:05,040
mean i remember there was a time i think

5825
03:40:10,950 --> 03:40:08,560
it was 2000 and 1560 yeah that time when

5826
03:40:13,590 --> 03:40:10,960
the canceled culture and the dividing

5827
03:40:16,309 --> 03:40:13,600
conquer propaganda was being ramped up

5828
03:40:18,710 --> 03:40:16,319
and people were going after ann rand

5829
03:40:20,469 --> 03:40:18,720
really big time uh they were just kind

5830
03:40:22,870 --> 03:40:20,479
of trumping not trumping up they were

5831
03:40:26,150 --> 03:40:22,880
bringing historical facts but without

5832
03:40:28,710 --> 03:40:26,160
context be you know be on some clickable

5833
03:40:30,950 --> 03:40:28,720
articles on the internet and i remember

5834
03:40:34,710 --> 03:40:30,960
mitch writing of even though mitch is

5835
03:40:37,910 --> 03:40:34,720
like very left leaning very i mean he he

5836
03:40:41,590 --> 03:40:37,920
openly admits he loves karl marx but he

5837
03:40:43,510 --> 03:40:41,600
wrote this very sober wonderful long

5838
03:40:46,070 --> 03:40:43,520
article about anne wren and he said

5839
03:40:48,710 --> 03:40:46,080
these are her good parts which i admire

5840
03:40:50,309 --> 03:40:48,720
these other parts i do not admire but

5841
03:40:52,950 --> 03:40:50,319
let's look at the

5842
03:40:55,110 --> 03:40:52,960
the whole package and let's see anne ran

5843
03:40:56,070 --> 03:40:55,120
for it is she's not the existential

5844
03:40:58,469 --> 03:40:56,080
threat

5845
03:41:00,389 --> 03:40:58,479
to a civilization that leftists would

5846
03:41:03,269 --> 03:41:00,399
like to see but she's also not the

5847
03:41:04,790 --> 03:41:03,279
savior that a lot of libertarians and so

5848
03:41:07,510 --> 03:41:04,800
forth would like and he did the same

5849
03:41:10,550 --> 03:41:07,520
with uh what's his name uh james randy

5850
03:41:12,469 --> 03:41:10,560
was the um right yeah the the big time

5851
03:41:13,429 --> 03:41:12,479
atheist when he passed away except he

5852
03:41:18,630 --> 03:41:13,439
got

5853
03:41:20,550 --> 03:41:18,640
atheist community and he stood up for

5854
03:41:22,229 --> 03:41:20,560
his conviction and he said no this is

5855
03:41:24,389 --> 03:41:22,239
what i did this is

5856
03:41:26,469 --> 03:41:24,399
the good parts the bad parts uh the

5857
03:41:29,269 --> 03:41:26,479
questionable parts and everything else

5858
03:41:31,189 --> 03:41:29,279
so i think um i'm sure mitch will come

5859
03:41:33,750 --> 03:41:31,199
around and of course he talks a lot

5860
03:41:35,189 --> 03:41:33,760
about many of his heroes that that he's

5861
03:41:37,189 --> 03:41:35,199
had so

5862
03:41:39,830 --> 03:41:37,199
i think uh we'll just see where this

5863
03:41:42,630 --> 03:41:39,840
goes but uh yeah i agree

5864
03:41:45,670 --> 03:41:42,640
it's not it's not going anywhere all

5865
03:41:48,309 --> 03:41:45,680
this information has been out for years

5866
03:41:50,469 --> 03:41:48,319
and the guy is a satanist so you know

5867
03:41:53,510 --> 03:41:50,479
whatever that means to be publicly a

5868
03:41:55,429 --> 03:41:53,520
satanist and to publicly defend aquino

5869
03:41:57,189 --> 03:41:55,439
again this is where we we differ a

5870
03:41:59,189 --> 03:41:57,199
little bit it's awesome i still love you

5871
03:42:01,990 --> 03:41:59,199
i still love all your work but i think

5872
03:42:04,150 --> 03:42:02,000
we do i think the litmus test thing as

5873
03:42:06,630 --> 03:42:04,160
uncomfortable as people are with that

5874
03:42:09,110 --> 03:42:06,640
idea yeah i think there are litmus tests

5875
03:42:11,189 --> 03:42:09,120
out there i mean if you think if if you

5876
03:42:13,830 --> 03:42:11,199
don't understand that 911 was an inside

5877
03:42:16,550 --> 03:42:13,840
job i mean that's a litmus test your

5878
03:42:18,710 --> 03:42:16,560
worldview is somewhat

5879
03:42:20,389 --> 03:42:18,720
limited or you're trying to deceive in

5880
03:42:22,070 --> 03:42:20,399
the case of mitch horowitz he knows

5881
03:42:23,830 --> 03:42:22,080
better about aquino he just wants to

5882
03:42:26,150 --> 03:42:23,840
mislead people that

5883
03:42:28,870 --> 03:42:26,160
that this well-known satanist mike

5884
03:42:31,030 --> 03:42:28,880
laquino was not who he said he was and

5885
03:42:32,790 --> 03:42:31,040
that's the only it's not the same part

5886
03:42:35,110 --> 03:42:32,800
that gets you right i think it's the

5887
03:42:37,910 --> 03:42:35,120
pedophilia part yeah that's it that's no

5888
03:42:40,630 --> 03:42:37,920
it's it's the satanism part because the

5889
03:42:43,030 --> 03:42:40,640
do what thou wilt as you correctly

5890
03:42:46,630 --> 03:42:43,040
pointed out i think that is the

5891
03:42:49,349 --> 03:42:46,640
abomination on spirit on divinity on

5892
03:42:52,469 --> 03:42:49,359
light on the light that that is really

5893
03:42:54,790 --> 03:42:52,479
what matters is the the

5894
03:42:57,830 --> 03:42:54,800
whatever satanism is again and it can

5895
03:42:58,950 --> 03:42:57,840
only be defined by a totally corrupt

5896
03:43:01,590 --> 03:42:58,960
christian

5897
03:43:03,349 --> 03:43:01,600
understanding of it so it's corrupt it

5898
03:43:05,349 --> 03:43:03,359
is a meaningless term from the beginning

5899
03:43:07,910 --> 03:43:05,359
but the only way to understand it is to

5900
03:43:11,910 --> 03:43:07,920
understand it as deception

5901
03:43:13,429 --> 03:43:11,920
as darkness as whatever those other you

5902
03:43:14,950 --> 03:43:13,439
know we all know the tools in the

5903
03:43:17,349 --> 03:43:14,960
playbook you know do what thou wilt all

5904
03:43:21,110 --> 03:43:17,359
those things but it's darkness it's to

5905
03:43:22,790 --> 03:43:21,120
bring you away from the light and that's

5906
03:43:24,710 --> 03:43:22,800
to me that's what michael aquino

5907
03:43:26,950 --> 03:43:24,720
represents his whole life represents

5908
03:43:28,630 --> 03:43:26,960
that and it's he's a sad pathetic figure

5909
03:43:32,070 --> 03:43:28,640
i mean he's not like a scary guy he's

5910
03:43:33,590 --> 03:43:32,080
just he's past but his whole history is

5911
03:43:35,030 --> 03:43:33,600
pathetic and his whole family is

5912
03:43:37,670 --> 03:43:35,040
pathetic i mean it's

5913
03:43:39,830 --> 03:43:37,680
it it's a very very sad sad kind of

5914
03:43:41,269 --> 03:43:39,840
thing but we have to call darkness when

5915
03:43:43,189 --> 03:43:41,279
we see darkness and we have to call

5916
03:43:44,870 --> 03:43:43,199
light and we can be wrong sometimes but

5917
03:43:46,710 --> 03:43:44,880
i think we have to

5918
03:43:47,429 --> 03:43:46,720
make those distinctions those are the

5919
03:43:49,110 --> 03:43:47,439
most

5920
03:43:50,870 --> 03:43:49,120
important distinctions

5921
03:43:53,590 --> 03:43:50,880
there is light there is darkness yeah

5922
03:43:56,790 --> 03:43:53,600
look first off i i haven't looked into

5923
03:43:59,670 --> 03:43:56,800
the arquina guy so all i have to go by

5924
03:44:02,229 --> 03:43:59,680
is what you've said uh alex and your

5925
03:44:04,790 --> 03:44:02,239
guest what's his name mitch yes mitch

5926
03:44:07,990 --> 03:44:04,800
horowitz is that the name

5927
03:44:10,550 --> 03:44:08,000
yeah so and he he is yeah i agree i got

5928
03:44:12,950 --> 03:44:10,560
a very good impression uh of him he

5929
03:44:15,510 --> 03:44:12,960
seemed very nuanced and

5930
03:44:18,550 --> 03:44:15,520
and nuances is what we need here like

5931
03:44:21,189 --> 03:44:18,560
miguel puts out but he sounded like he

5932
03:44:22,630 --> 03:44:21,199
was sincerely disagreeing with you

5933
03:44:25,030 --> 03:44:22,640
and i think

5934
03:44:26,389 --> 03:44:25,040
you say he was lying but that's remember

5935
03:44:28,630 --> 03:44:26,399
when you say that you're actually

5936
03:44:30,710 --> 03:44:28,640
implying that someone is saying the

5937
03:44:32,229 --> 03:44:30,720
opposite of what they know or what they

5938
03:44:34,950 --> 03:44:32,239
really believe

5939
03:44:36,790 --> 03:44:34,960
and and of course that happens a lot but

5940
03:44:39,670 --> 03:44:36,800
when you're saying we have to call out

5941
03:44:41,510 --> 03:44:39,680
our own i agree with you but not in the

5942
03:44:43,910 --> 03:44:41,520
way you seem to mean now because you

5943
03:44:45,910 --> 03:44:43,920
seem to be on some kind of moral crusade

5944
03:44:48,710 --> 03:44:45,920
it's impossible to get everyone on board

5945
03:44:50,790 --> 03:44:48,720
on that anyway i believe we have to

5946
03:44:53,189 --> 03:44:50,800
independent media have to call out

5947
03:44:55,349 --> 03:44:53,199
themselves and each other for these

5948
03:44:58,790 --> 03:44:55,359
reasons number one

5949
03:45:00,630 --> 03:44:58,800
we cannot leave it to the debunkers and

5950
03:45:02,229 --> 03:45:00,640
the mainstream and you see how they're

5951
03:45:03,429 --> 03:45:02,239
treating rogan and everything they have

5952
03:45:05,910 --> 03:45:03,439
agenda

5953
03:45:08,150 --> 03:45:05,920
their entire starting point is a lie and

5954
03:45:09,189 --> 03:45:08,160
manipulation but if we do it with

5955
03:45:11,830 --> 03:45:09,199
ourselves

5956
03:45:14,710 --> 03:45:11,840
people will re recognize it's a truth

5957
03:45:16,710 --> 03:45:14,720
purification process it's we we are the

5958
03:45:18,389 --> 03:45:16,720
independent media is trying to get to

5959
03:45:19,429 --> 03:45:18,399
the bottom of whatever we are talking

5960
03:45:22,150 --> 03:45:19,439
about

5961
03:45:23,590 --> 03:45:22,160
and a part of that must be to afford to

5962
03:45:25,910 --> 03:45:23,600
disagree

5963
03:45:28,790 --> 03:45:25,920
and to call each other out and

5964
03:45:32,870 --> 03:45:28,800
notwithstanding also bashing

5965
03:45:36,070 --> 03:45:32,880
obvious ops like for example flat earth

5966
03:45:38,229 --> 03:45:36,080
because otherwise the moguls they are

5967
03:45:39,830 --> 03:45:38,239
being presented the the mainstream

5968
03:45:41,349 --> 03:45:39,840
public overtone window which is

5969
03:45:42,870 --> 03:45:41,359
completely [\h__\h] going nowhere

5970
03:45:44,550 --> 03:45:42,880
materialism

5971
03:45:45,670 --> 03:45:44,560
or nothing and love it

5972
03:45:47,510 --> 03:45:45,680
and then

5973
03:45:49,670 --> 03:45:47,520
as a scary

5974
03:45:51,429 --> 03:45:49,680
kind of come to us come to the public

5975
03:45:53,910 --> 03:45:51,439
overtone window because look at what's

5976
03:45:56,229 --> 03:45:53,920
going on over there and then they put up

5977
03:45:58,389 --> 03:45:56,239
the boogeymans that's how they started

5978
03:46:00,229 --> 03:45:58,399
with alex jones right who yeah who is

5979
03:46:02,630 --> 03:46:00,239
easy you can take anything out of

5980
03:46:06,389 --> 03:46:02,640
context some rant he has

5981
03:46:08,870 --> 03:46:06,399
and everyone will run to the mainstream

5982
03:46:11,429 --> 03:46:08,880
but if you sit down with alex jones you

5983
03:46:13,030 --> 03:46:11,439
first you sedate him then you ask him to

5984
03:46:15,269 --> 03:46:13,040
bring all his sources then you say we

5985
03:46:17,590 --> 03:46:15,279
have five hours alex now explain why

5986
03:46:19,030 --> 03:46:17,600
frogs are gay then he won't come off

5987
03:46:21,349 --> 03:46:19,040
like a madman

5988
03:46:23,030 --> 03:46:21,359
but i'm saying let us do it and not

5989
03:46:25,189 --> 03:46:23,040
leave it to them

5990
03:46:27,590 --> 03:46:25,199
because then people will see it's a po

5991
03:46:29,269 --> 03:46:27,600
it's it's a that's a part of the success

5992
03:46:30,630 --> 03:46:29,279
of skeptical like we talked about in the

5993
03:46:32,790 --> 03:46:30,640
beginning that

5994
03:46:34,950 --> 03:46:32,800
unlike all the other people who went to

5995
03:46:37,189 --> 03:46:34,960
the battle are gladiators oh i'm

5996
03:46:39,590 --> 03:46:37,199
fighting for my tribe

5997
03:46:41,189 --> 03:46:39,600
you were going in there with a truth

5998
03:46:43,670 --> 03:46:41,199
agenda

5999
03:46:45,670 --> 03:46:43,680
and that that was recognized by many and

6000
03:46:47,110 --> 03:46:45,680
that's also what scared away many

6001
03:46:48,550 --> 03:46:47,120
including the skeptics because they're

6002
03:46:50,389 --> 03:46:48,560
not used to talking with someone who is

6003
03:46:52,469 --> 03:46:50,399
actually sincere yeah let's look at the

6004
03:46:54,070 --> 03:46:52,479
data okay let's see what this means you

6005
03:46:56,150 --> 03:46:54,080
see you understand what i mean i

6006
03:46:58,469 --> 03:46:56,160
disagree i disagree yeah but did you

6007
03:47:00,469 --> 03:46:58,479
understand it my point well of course i

6008
03:47:03,429 --> 03:47:00,479
i understand it but so what did you

6009
03:47:05,590 --> 03:47:03,439
disagree with let's hear is that

6010
03:47:07,990 --> 03:47:05,600
the subtlety that we're talking about

6011
03:47:11,349 --> 03:47:08,000
right now is what's most important to me

6012
03:47:13,910 --> 03:47:11,359
right now because i don't think this is

6013
03:47:15,510 --> 03:47:13,920
an impossible this kind of discernment

6014
03:47:18,630 --> 03:47:15,520
that you're looking for

6015
03:47:22,150 --> 03:47:18,640
is impossible to achieve i think that

6016
03:47:24,790 --> 03:47:22,160
the pandemic has forced us to

6017
03:47:27,750 --> 03:47:24,800
sort through this stuff on a on a just

6018
03:47:30,389 --> 03:47:27,760
on a scale of 10 from what we used to be

6019
03:47:33,990 --> 03:47:30,399
so we'll go back to michael aquino and i

6020
03:47:35,429 --> 03:47:34,000
can send you both if you want the the

6021
03:47:39,429 --> 03:47:35,439
excellent website where the guy has

6022
03:47:41,990 --> 03:47:39,439
broken down all the uh

6023
03:47:43,349 --> 03:47:42,000
you know michael aquino was personally

6024
03:47:47,110 --> 03:47:43,359
identified him and his wife were

6025
03:47:50,389 --> 03:47:47,120
identified by 60 witnesses children in

6026
03:47:52,630 --> 03:47:50,399
the presidio child care center in

6027
03:47:53,750 --> 03:47:52,640
san francisco the evidence was so strong

6028
03:47:55,670 --> 03:47:53,760
that they were able to get a search

6029
03:47:57,429 --> 03:47:55,680
warrant for his house when they got it

6030
03:47:59,670 --> 03:47:57,439
into his house they found exactly what

6031
03:48:02,630 --> 03:47:59,680
the kids said walls all painted black

6032
03:48:05,590 --> 03:48:02,640
and red an altar out of bones and they

6033
03:48:07,670 --> 03:48:05,600
had all they found pornographic films

6034
03:48:10,229 --> 03:48:07,680
and videos and you asked the great

6035
03:48:13,110 --> 03:48:10,239
question al was he ever convicted no he

6036
03:48:15,269 --> 03:48:13,120
wasn't why wasn't he convicted maybe

6037
03:48:18,389 --> 03:48:15,279
because he was a colonel in the army

6038
03:48:21,910 --> 03:48:18,399
with the connections of how this

6039
03:48:24,389 --> 03:48:21,920
pedophilia and satanism had infiltrated

6040
03:48:26,950 --> 03:48:24,399
in so many ways yeah it is

6041
03:48:30,150 --> 03:48:26,960
not believable to me

6042
03:48:34,070 --> 03:48:30,160
that mitch horowitz as intelligent as he

6043
03:48:34,950 --> 03:48:34,080
is is not aware of this evidence that is

6044
03:48:38,389 --> 03:48:34,960
not

6045
03:48:41,030 --> 03:48:38,399
that i i'm willing to accept that maybe

6046
03:48:43,030 --> 03:48:41,040
that's true but i would say the the

6047
03:48:45,910 --> 03:48:43,040
burden of proof would be strongly on

6048
03:48:48,870 --> 03:48:45,920
anyone who made as intelligent as him

6049
03:48:51,030 --> 03:48:48,880
has as well read as him who doesn't have

6050
03:48:53,590 --> 03:48:51,040
that information so that's where i kind

6051
03:48:55,510 --> 03:48:53,600
of draw the line

6052
03:48:57,830 --> 03:48:55,520
with both you and miguel where you go oh

6053
03:48:59,830 --> 03:48:57,840
you know he's a good guy no he sounded

6054
03:49:01,429 --> 03:48:59,840
like he was yeah yeah but old skeptical

6055
03:49:03,590 --> 03:49:01,439
would have him back on

6056
03:49:05,189 --> 03:49:03,600
and first send him the evidence after

6057
03:49:06,550 --> 03:49:05,199
the first show and then have him back on

6058
03:49:08,389 --> 03:49:06,560
to confront him

6059
03:49:10,950 --> 03:49:08,399
gladly i've offered to have him back out

6060
03:49:13,429 --> 03:49:10,960
he would never he'll never come back on

6061
03:49:16,070 --> 03:49:13,439
that's all these people they never come

6062
03:49:18,309 --> 03:49:16,080
back on of course not are you kidding no

6063
03:49:21,429 --> 03:49:18,319
i read your first book i know you had

6064
03:49:23,670 --> 03:49:21,439
people come back on after a disagreement

6065
03:49:26,070 --> 03:49:23,680
who who came back on who i have to read

6066
03:49:27,910 --> 03:49:26,080
why science is wrong about everything

6067
03:49:30,950 --> 03:49:27,920
there's a few that you do mention in

6068
03:49:32,870 --> 03:49:30,960
your first book i the brave even printed

6069
03:49:34,710 --> 03:49:32,880
out the emails you know we had a

6070
03:49:36,790 --> 03:49:34,720
disagreement let's cut let's do this

6071
03:49:39,510 --> 03:49:36,800
again so there's a couple of people who

6072
03:49:41,910 --> 03:49:39,520
did come back from skeptico yeah

6073
03:49:45,269 --> 03:49:41,920
well you know that was back in the day

6074
03:49:48,550 --> 03:49:45,279
when it was about like research papers

6075
03:49:51,269 --> 03:49:48,560
in parapsychology in a narrow thing

6076
03:49:54,070 --> 03:49:51,279
the culture issues and the deeper

6077
03:49:57,429 --> 03:49:54,080
esoteric issues and really the spiritual

6078
03:50:00,309 --> 03:49:57,439
issues and these issues of evil and

6079
03:50:03,189 --> 03:50:00,319
darkness versus light

6080
03:50:06,630 --> 03:50:03,199
my experiences no those people do not

6081
03:50:08,950 --> 03:50:06,640
mitch horwitz is welcome at any time to

6082
03:50:12,229 --> 03:50:08,960
come on and talk about the specifics of

6083
03:50:14,790 --> 03:50:12,239
the colonel michael aquino case colonel

6084
03:50:17,189 --> 03:50:14,800
is really the the most important figure

6085
03:50:19,429 --> 03:50:17,199
definitely deep connections to mk ultra

6086
03:50:21,910 --> 03:50:19,439
deep connections to

6087
03:50:24,070 --> 03:50:21,920
all sorts of mind control experiments

6088
03:50:26,870 --> 03:50:24,080
that should really be the focus not his

6089
03:50:29,830 --> 03:50:26,880
satanism satanism and his pedophilia

6090
03:50:32,229 --> 03:50:29,840
it's that this was kind of

6091
03:50:35,110 --> 03:50:32,239
and still is we must assume

6092
03:50:37,110 --> 03:50:35,120
a significant part of

6093
03:50:39,269 --> 03:50:37,120
whatever it takes kind of military

6094
03:50:41,349 --> 03:50:39,279
mentality or we don't even know what how

6095
03:50:43,269 --> 03:50:41,359
how far that reaches but yeah i can

6096
03:50:46,309 --> 03:50:43,279
believe that because did you see the

6097
03:50:49,030 --> 03:50:46,319
recent cia revelations that a bunch of

6098
03:50:50,950 --> 03:50:49,040
people in cia exactly were pedophiles

6099
03:50:53,110 --> 03:50:50,960
and criminals and they weren't even

6100
03:50:55,990 --> 03:50:53,120
charged the worst thing that happened

6101
03:50:58,150 --> 03:50:56,000
was that they lost their jobs

6102
03:51:01,110 --> 03:50:58,160
i think one of them lost their jobs well

6103
03:51:03,670 --> 03:51:01,120
they did they did go to court with one

6104
03:51:06,630 --> 03:51:03,680
cia employees but that was because he

6105
03:51:09,030 --> 03:51:06,640
had uh mishandled sensitive classified

6106
03:51:11,750 --> 03:51:09,040
information that's why they went after

6107
03:51:13,990 --> 03:51:11,760
him so all the others al but al we have

6108
03:51:16,150 --> 03:51:14,000
to stop saying this is my opinion i'm

6109
03:51:18,469 --> 03:51:16,160
calling miguel out here too on this nice

6110
03:51:19,910 --> 03:51:18,479
he came out to do a nice wish me well

6111
03:51:22,710 --> 03:51:19,920
kind of thing

6112
03:51:24,469 --> 03:51:22,720
you know what no he just because he's a

6113
03:51:27,830 --> 03:51:24,479
nice guy

6114
03:51:31,110 --> 03:51:27,840
and just because he wrote a nice piece

6115
03:51:33,830 --> 03:51:31,120
on and ran doesn't mean that

6116
03:51:37,830 --> 03:51:33,840
he's telling the truth here and he has

6117
03:51:40,630 --> 03:51:37,840
to tell the truth all the time 100 of

6118
03:51:42,870 --> 03:51:40,640
the time that is our obligation and if

6119
03:51:45,189 --> 03:51:42,880
we're not telling the truth 100 of the

6120
03:51:47,510 --> 03:51:45,199
time then we must have a different

6121
03:51:49,910 --> 03:51:47,520
agenda the agenda is to intentionally

6122
03:51:51,349 --> 03:51:49,920
deceive or mislead there's that's that's

6123
03:51:53,030 --> 03:51:51,359
kind of simple

6124
03:51:56,150 --> 03:51:53,040
yeah i mean tell the truth i mean you

6125
03:51:58,630 --> 03:51:56,160
can tell the untrue without

6126
03:52:00,150 --> 03:51:58,640
intention but uh i'll give the comment

6127
03:52:02,469 --> 03:52:00,160
to miguel

6128
03:52:06,229 --> 03:52:02,479
ah yeah um i don't know what to say i

6129
03:52:08,710 --> 03:52:06,239
just came to say happy anniversary man

6130
03:52:11,269 --> 03:52:08,720
you got sucked in yeah yeah how do we

6131
03:52:12,309 --> 03:52:11,279
get into uh michael aquino

6132
03:52:46,309 --> 03:52:12,319
i

6133
03:52:48,469 --> 03:52:46,319
focus on

6134
03:52:50,309 --> 03:52:48,479
satanism and again we go round and round

6135
03:52:52,550 --> 03:52:50,319
what is satanism there's different

6136
03:52:54,150 --> 03:52:52,560
strains of satanism

6137
03:52:56,710 --> 03:52:54,160
uh throughout history there have been

6138
03:52:58,550 --> 03:52:56,720
different strains of satanism from the i

6139
03:53:00,309 --> 03:52:58,560
love the prince of darkness i want to

6140
03:53:02,870 --> 03:53:00,319
kill to the more

6141
03:53:06,630 --> 03:53:02,880
uh luciferian and of course the church

6142
03:53:08,870 --> 03:53:06,640
of satan today is simply a humanistic uh

6143
03:53:10,710 --> 03:53:08,880
well i don't i don't personally i don't

6144
03:53:13,110 --> 03:53:10,720
like their agenda i think i think they

6145
03:53:15,429 --> 03:53:13,120
do more damage than good

6146
03:53:17,590 --> 03:53:15,439
but uh they do claim to be a humanist

6147
03:53:19,670 --> 03:53:17,600
agenda that simply sees satan as the

6148
03:53:21,189 --> 03:53:19,680
symbol of rebellion against the

6149
03:53:23,830 --> 03:53:21,199
establishment

6150
03:53:25,750 --> 03:53:23,840
i i i get all that it gets down to a

6151
03:53:28,950 --> 03:53:25,760
matter of if you

6152
03:53:31,189 --> 03:53:28,960
accept the idea that there are

6153
03:53:33,349 --> 03:53:31,199
there that there is a darkness there is

6154
03:53:35,590 --> 03:53:33,359
a dark force there is a dark energy and

6155
03:53:37,110 --> 03:53:35,600
some people for various reasons are

6156
03:53:39,030 --> 03:53:37,120
drawn to that

6157
03:53:41,670 --> 03:53:39,040
do you accept that idea or do you not

6158
03:53:43,990 --> 03:53:41,680
accept the idea of a light and a dark of

6159
03:53:46,710 --> 03:53:44,000
course i mean we've had conversations i

6160
03:53:48,870 --> 03:53:46,720
mean all of us cast a shadow all of us

6161
03:53:50,870 --> 03:53:48,880
have the potential darkness within us

6162
03:53:53,510 --> 03:53:50,880
that could go off at any minute

6163
03:53:55,830 --> 03:53:53,520
right so when we're drawn to the dark

6164
03:53:58,550 --> 03:53:55,840
that's not good to keep things really

6165
03:54:02,309 --> 03:53:58,560
simple and when we see people who have a

6166
03:54:04,389 --> 03:54:02,319
life that is basically enmeshed in and

6167
03:54:06,630 --> 03:54:04,399
has fallen victim to

6168
03:54:08,870 --> 03:54:06,640
the darkness over and over again

6169
03:54:10,469 --> 03:54:08,880
these are not people we want to

6170
03:54:12,229 --> 03:54:10,479
prop up and say that that's the right

6171
03:54:13,910 --> 03:54:12,239
thing we feel sorry for him like you

6172
03:54:16,790 --> 03:54:13,920
feel sorry for mike luquino he's

6173
03:54:19,189 --> 03:54:16,800
pathetic person but yeah but alex i mean

6174
03:54:21,590 --> 03:54:19,199
here's an example for example

6175
03:54:23,830 --> 03:54:21,600
you know i loved when i was younger

6176
03:54:25,510 --> 03:54:23,840
individuals like jim morrison or frank

6177
03:54:27,750 --> 03:54:25,520
zappa i thought they were great they

6178
03:54:30,389 --> 03:54:27,760
inspired me so some of their music and

6179
03:54:32,150 --> 03:54:30,399
poetry saved my life

6180
03:54:34,229 --> 03:54:32,160
made and i guess you could make an

6181
03:54:36,630 --> 03:54:34,239
argument maybe took me down drugs but

6182
03:54:39,269 --> 03:54:36,640
whatever it is very impactful people on

6183
03:54:40,630 --> 03:54:39,279
my life and other people so now i read

6184
03:54:43,349 --> 03:54:40,640
you know of course you get older you

6185
03:54:46,550 --> 03:54:43,359
find out mother these [\h__\h] were

6186
03:54:48,469 --> 03:54:46,560
part of uh military mk ultra

6187
03:54:51,429 --> 03:54:48,479
they were part of the machine to

6188
03:54:53,510 --> 03:54:51,439
hypnotize humanity but you know what i

6189
03:54:55,670 --> 03:54:53,520
still like their music i still like

6190
03:54:58,790 --> 03:54:55,680
their message i still have a place in my

6191
03:55:01,189 --> 03:54:58,800
heart for them even if i'm like you sons

6192
03:55:03,429 --> 03:55:01,199
of [\h__\h] were part of the

6193
03:55:05,510 --> 03:55:03,439
you were part of the darkness so it's

6194
03:55:07,830 --> 03:55:05,520
it's pretty complicated that way i mean

6195
03:55:09,830 --> 03:55:07,840
i'm sure you've got examples yourself

6196
03:55:11,990 --> 03:55:09,840
you know what

6197
03:55:13,510 --> 03:55:12,000
well i i do in that way but miguel it

6198
03:55:15,349 --> 03:55:13,520
really isn't that complicated because

6199
03:55:17,510 --> 03:55:15,359
you're telling the truth you're not

6200
03:55:20,469 --> 03:55:17,520
saying that i'm such a fan of jim

6201
03:55:22,389 --> 03:55:20,479
morrison that i can't accept that his

6202
03:55:25,030 --> 03:55:22,399
father had these deep

6203
03:55:26,950 --> 03:55:25,040
military intelligence connections

6204
03:55:29,269 --> 03:55:26,960
you're telling the truth that's all i

6205
03:55:31,429 --> 03:55:29,279
that's all i want is the truth

6206
03:55:35,349 --> 03:55:31,439
but like i said earlier today truth

6207
03:55:38,630 --> 03:55:35,359
isn't high in stock despite the

6208
03:55:41,349 --> 03:55:38,640
party speeches um but it is the driving

6209
03:55:44,550 --> 03:55:41,359
force of your show and a little uh

6210
03:55:46,870 --> 03:55:44,560
sideshow here illustrates skeptical 4-0

6211
03:55:49,910 --> 03:55:46,880
because you got full esoteric

6212
03:55:52,229 --> 03:55:49,920
that's my point for skeptical for or the

6213
03:55:54,070 --> 03:55:52,239
direction you're heading anyway

6214
03:55:56,469 --> 03:55:54,080
which is why i kind of like the

6215
03:55:59,830 --> 03:55:56,479
association with miguel and gordon uh

6216
03:56:02,070 --> 03:55:59,840
look we i have one more clip to play

6217
03:56:03,670 --> 03:56:02,080
we have to let miguel go because if you

6218
03:56:04,950 --> 03:56:03,680
want to talk about being sandbagged and

6219
03:56:08,070 --> 03:56:04,960
ambushed

6220
03:56:09,910 --> 03:56:08,080
this is it this is an example of it you

6221
03:56:12,150 --> 03:56:09,920
invite somebody on for one reason and

6222
03:56:14,150 --> 03:56:12,160
then you totally turn it around

6223
03:56:16,630 --> 03:56:14,160
yeah well that wasn't planned i mean

6224
03:56:18,550 --> 03:56:16,640
neither of us i know i just i'm just

6225
03:56:20,950 --> 03:56:18,560
kidding because i i i so love and

6226
03:56:23,189 --> 03:56:20,960
respect miguel and i i grilled him

6227
03:56:25,990 --> 03:56:23,199
pretty hard there on on mitch horowitz

6228
03:56:27,670 --> 03:56:26,000
but i won't stop um i stand by whatever

6229
03:56:29,750 --> 03:56:27,680
all the things i said but he he doesn't

6230
03:56:31,429 --> 03:56:29,760
have to go he can stay for a while uh we

6231
03:56:32,710 --> 03:56:31,439
just have one more clip well we should

6232
03:56:34,950 --> 03:56:32,720
invite we should give him the

6233
03:56:36,630 --> 03:56:34,960
opportunity to go right he's right he's

6234
03:56:38,469 --> 03:56:36,640
been very generous with this time no i'm

6235
03:56:40,710 --> 03:56:38,479
good i want to listen to this clip no

6236
03:56:42,790 --> 03:56:40,720
it's all good it's all good i mean as

6237
03:56:44,630 --> 03:56:42,800
jim morrison said no one here gets out

6238
03:56:46,150 --> 03:56:44,640
alive so we might as well enjoy each

6239
03:56:47,750 --> 03:56:46,160
other's company because it ain't gonna

6240
03:56:49,269 --> 03:56:47,760
last

6241
03:56:50,950 --> 03:56:49,279
exactly you know the other interesting

6242
03:56:52,710 --> 03:56:50,960
thing about jim morrison what does it

6243
03:56:55,670 --> 03:56:52,720
mean to be the son

6244
03:56:56,870 --> 03:56:55,680
of that how much was it really within

6245
03:56:58,630 --> 03:56:56,880
his

6246
03:57:01,110 --> 03:56:58,640
you know it's very complicated and the

6247
03:57:03,750 --> 03:57:01,120
same thing is true with aquino his

6248
03:57:06,950 --> 03:57:03,760
background and his parents horrible

6249
03:57:08,870 --> 03:57:06,960
horrific horrific so he is a victim as

6250
03:57:11,429 --> 03:57:08,880
well as a perpetrator yeah i mean these

6251
03:57:14,150 --> 03:57:11,439
these again monsters are created nobody

6252
03:57:17,510 --> 03:57:14,160
wakes up one day saying i want to cause

6253
03:57:19,189 --> 03:57:17,520
untold damage to humanity and rob people

6254
03:57:21,590 --> 03:57:19,199
of their dignity and destroy

6255
03:57:23,510 --> 03:57:21,600
civilizations these things are i mean

6256
03:57:25,910 --> 03:57:23,520
you've done plenty of shows on that alex

6257
03:57:29,429 --> 03:57:25,920
you know the satanic cults i mean the

6258
03:57:31,910 --> 03:57:29,439
elite have to blackmail rape abuse each

6259
03:57:34,790 --> 03:57:31,920
other to keep each other trained and

6260
03:57:37,510 --> 03:57:34,800
honest you know honor amongst thieves so

6261
03:57:39,670 --> 03:57:37,520
yeah you have to feel compassion for

6262
03:57:42,309 --> 03:57:39,680
individuals like jim morrison and other

6263
03:57:44,630 --> 03:57:42,319
of the tools of the this wickedness in

6264
03:57:47,510 --> 03:57:44,640
high places hey look i worked in

6265
03:57:48,950 --> 03:57:47,520
psychiatry and one of the first things i

6266
03:57:52,229 --> 03:57:48,960
learned when

6267
03:57:53,670 --> 03:57:52,239
working with abused children was that

6268
03:57:57,910 --> 03:57:53,680
three or four

6269
03:58:00,469 --> 03:57:57,920
abusers are abused we're abused so yeah

6270
03:58:02,550 --> 03:58:00,479
it's maybe what the christians call the

6271
03:58:05,110 --> 03:58:02,560
heritage sin is that the english word

6272
03:58:07,189 --> 03:58:05,120
for it that the bad vibes going

6273
03:58:09,670 --> 03:58:07,199
generation by jesus sins of the father

6274
03:58:12,229 --> 03:58:09,680
yeah that's what you do yeah yeah yeah

6275
03:58:13,830 --> 03:58:12,239
we directly translated for norwegians

6276
03:58:14,710 --> 03:58:13,840
heritage sin

6277
03:58:16,870 --> 03:58:14,720
but

6278
03:58:19,189 --> 03:58:16,880
before we play the last clip and comment

6279
03:58:20,229 --> 03:58:19,199
upon that it's kind of connected

6280
03:58:21,429 --> 03:58:20,239
actually

6281
03:58:23,750 --> 03:58:21,439
but

6282
03:58:25,990 --> 03:58:23,760
we were talking about calling others out

6283
03:58:27,910 --> 03:58:26,000
you didn't comment upon that alex you

6284
03:58:31,189 --> 03:58:27,920
you just wanted us to

6285
03:58:33,189 --> 03:58:31,199
agree that this chap is uh satanist but

6286
03:58:35,670 --> 03:58:33,199
don't you agree really that

6287
03:58:37,910 --> 03:58:35,680
we need to keep each other honest in the

6288
03:58:40,150 --> 03:58:37,920
independent media and that we need to

6289
03:58:42,950 --> 03:58:40,160
create a climate where there's it's okay

6290
03:58:45,269 --> 03:58:42,960
because remember the cancer culture and

6291
03:58:47,030 --> 03:58:45,279
the politicization the [\h__\h] left

6292
03:58:48,710 --> 03:58:47,040
right narrative when it's all about

6293
03:58:51,269 --> 03:58:48,720
bottom top

6294
03:58:53,189 --> 03:58:51,279
remember all that stuff and also the uh

6295
03:58:56,070 --> 03:58:53,199
oh i'm too sensitive to hear what you're

6296
03:58:56,950 --> 03:58:56,080
saying all that is artificially created

6297
03:58:59,030 --> 03:58:56,960
from

6298
03:59:01,510 --> 03:58:59,040
those who set the agenda if you want to

6299
03:59:04,229 --> 03:59:01,520
look at what it what happens when nobody

6300
03:59:08,150 --> 03:59:04,239
tries to intervene then look at internet

6301
03:59:10,710 --> 03:59:08,160
from its inception until 2015. it was

6302
03:59:13,189 --> 03:59:10,720
like i've said before it was an anarchic

6303
03:59:15,590 --> 03:59:13,199
state and it worked

6304
03:59:18,950 --> 03:59:15,600
and everything we know came from that

6305
03:59:22,469 --> 03:59:18,960
right and so free speech freedom

6306
03:59:24,229 --> 03:59:22,479
also means that it's okay to disagree so

6307
03:59:26,790 --> 03:59:24,239
so what do you what you guys think about

6308
03:59:28,790 --> 03:59:26,800
that that we should clean up our own

6309
03:59:31,030 --> 03:59:28,800
area on our premises

6310
03:59:32,469 --> 03:59:31,040
well i just think we just have to be

6311
03:59:35,189 --> 03:59:32,479
committed to

6312
03:59:38,150 --> 03:59:35,199
the truth and telling the truth and

6313
03:59:40,229 --> 03:59:38,160
not worrying about you know oh he's such

6314
03:59:42,309 --> 03:59:40,239
a good guy i'm friends with him you know

6315
03:59:44,630 --> 03:59:42,319
there's a bunch of people that i've had

6316
03:59:46,469 --> 03:59:44,640
over the time in the relationships

6317
03:59:48,469 --> 03:59:46,479
that they don't always

6318
03:59:49,269 --> 03:59:48,479
work out because

6319
03:59:50,630 --> 03:59:49,279
i'm

6320
03:59:52,790 --> 03:59:50,640
pretty

6321
03:59:55,910 --> 03:59:52,800
vocal about saying this is the truth

6322
03:59:58,710 --> 03:59:55,920
i've discovered if this upsets you or if

6323
04:00:00,790 --> 03:59:58,720
this means we can't be friends anymore

6324
04:00:04,469 --> 04:00:00,800
i'm sorry but i have to

6325
04:00:06,710 --> 04:00:04,479
pursue the truth i can't pull up because

6326
04:00:08,870 --> 04:00:06,720
we're friends

6327
04:00:11,910 --> 04:00:08,880
yeah but but that goes together with

6328
04:00:14,389 --> 04:00:11,920
making it okay to disagree i think we

6329
04:00:15,269 --> 04:00:14,399
need to teach people that that's okay

6330
04:00:17,429 --> 04:00:15,279
too

6331
04:00:20,309 --> 04:00:17,439
because when people are not identified

6332
04:00:22,150 --> 04:00:20,319
with illusions like their emotions or

6333
04:00:23,590 --> 04:00:22,160
their thoughts

6334
04:00:26,389 --> 04:00:23,600
i just think a lot of this a lot of this

6335
04:00:29,429 --> 04:00:26,399
[\h__\h] about cancel culture is is bull is

6336
04:00:31,269 --> 04:00:29,439
obviously [\h__\h] it isn't that hard

6337
04:00:34,309 --> 04:00:31,279
the discernment in this

6338
04:00:36,630 --> 04:00:34,319
way is not that hard it's it's it's you

6339
04:00:39,590 --> 04:00:36,640
get that you to let other people

6340
04:00:42,070 --> 04:00:39,600
say stuff and you also get if people say

6341
04:00:44,309 --> 04:00:42,080
really really stupid stuff you don't

6342
04:00:46,950 --> 04:00:44,319
you're not obligated to sit there and

6343
04:00:48,950 --> 04:00:46,960
and be subjected to it you know so well

6344
04:00:51,269 --> 04:00:48,960
i think we we have a real good sense a

6345
04:00:53,990 --> 04:00:51,279
much better sense of where that line is

6346
04:00:56,150 --> 04:00:54,000
drawn than what we pretend when we hear

6347
04:00:57,510 --> 04:00:56,160
about oh you know because the canceled

6348
04:00:58,950 --> 04:00:57,520
culture is just that they're just

6349
04:01:01,269 --> 04:00:58,960
banning people they're just censoring

6350
04:01:03,990 --> 04:01:01,279
people completely so we get it let

6351
04:01:07,590 --> 04:01:04,000
miguel in there yeah but he muted

6352
04:01:10,150 --> 04:01:07,600
himself i'm you and i am unmuted now

6353
04:01:12,469 --> 04:01:10,160
uh well i mean cancel culture i think is

6354
04:01:15,830 --> 04:01:12,479
also about thought control

6355
04:01:17,750 --> 04:01:15,840
uh herd mentality divide and conquer

6356
04:01:19,830 --> 04:01:17,760
it's uh totally it's a lot more

6357
04:01:22,150 --> 04:01:19,840
complicated than that i don't know about

6358
04:01:23,830 --> 04:01:22,160
yeah policing each other i think the

6359
04:01:26,070 --> 04:01:23,840
truth is there i mean

6360
04:01:28,389 --> 04:01:26,080
all three of us have our podcasts and

6361
04:01:30,469 --> 04:01:28,399
these are our homes this is our voice

6362
04:01:33,110 --> 04:01:30,479
this is where we get to say what we want

6363
04:01:34,870 --> 04:01:33,120
to say and explore things that we want

6364
04:01:37,750 --> 04:01:34,880
to explore and our

6365
04:01:39,910 --> 04:01:37,760
views are always going to be changing as

6366
04:01:42,309 --> 04:01:39,920
marcus aurelius said

6367
04:01:44,630 --> 04:01:42,319
two things in life to live by let reason

6368
04:01:47,510 --> 04:01:44,640
guide you and change your mind

6369
04:01:49,670 --> 04:01:47,520
so we are going to evolve in these

6370
04:01:52,309 --> 04:01:49,680
things i mean but there are many

6371
04:01:55,030 --> 04:01:52,319
prodigal sons out there look at um

6372
04:01:58,070 --> 04:01:55,040
bringing in jordan peterson he bought

6373
04:02:00,790 --> 04:01:58,080
into everything he made his choice

6374
04:02:03,189 --> 04:02:00,800
and he got you know twice of acts

6375
04:02:05,349 --> 04:02:03,199
lockdowns he went with everything and he

6376
04:02:07,910 --> 04:02:05,359
went as far as he could with it and

6377
04:02:10,229 --> 04:02:07,920
finally said okay this is it i was lost

6378
04:02:12,389 --> 04:02:10,239
in the wilderness now i'm done and i'm

6379
04:02:14,550 --> 04:02:12,399
putting my foot on the sand so

6380
04:02:16,710 --> 04:02:14,560
sometimes there are um there are going

6381
04:02:19,030 --> 04:02:16,720
to be prodigal sons out there just like

6382
04:02:22,070 --> 04:02:19,040
i've been a prodigal son before

6383
04:02:23,110 --> 04:02:22,080
um but as far as policing each other i

6384
04:02:28,150 --> 04:02:23,120
don't know

6385
04:02:30,070 --> 04:02:28,160
really need to get down with definitions

6386
04:02:32,309 --> 04:02:30,080
of what things are and everything else i

6387
04:02:34,389 --> 04:02:32,319
know alex obviously has been exploring

6388
04:02:36,950 --> 04:02:34,399
it with the idea of evil

6389
04:02:40,229 --> 04:02:36,960
and that's a topic that's complicated in

6390
04:02:42,630 --> 04:02:40,239
itself that could take years to entangle

6391
04:02:44,469 --> 04:02:42,640
um so yeah that's really uh that's all i

6392
04:02:46,790 --> 04:02:44,479
got on this topic really

6393
04:02:49,030 --> 04:02:46,800
yeah brilliant okay let's move on then

6394
04:02:51,269 --> 04:02:49,040
and i'll play a new clip this is a mesh

6395
04:02:53,990 --> 04:02:51,279
of three different statements i'm i'll

6396
04:02:56,950 --> 04:02:54,000
call a clip on giving voice

6397
04:03:00,229 --> 04:02:56,960
discovering all the shows experimenting

6398
04:03:04,950 --> 04:03:01,910
which is the other impetus of the show

6399
04:03:07,670 --> 04:03:04,960
that really remained sound and true to

6400
04:03:10,550 --> 04:03:07,680
this day is that there's a lot of really

6401
04:03:13,269 --> 04:03:10,560
important thinkers out there who don't

6402
04:03:15,110 --> 04:03:13,279
get air time i think that's really

6403
04:03:17,670 --> 04:03:15,120
probably less true now than when i

6404
04:03:20,150 --> 04:03:17,680
started because there's been a a growth

6405
04:03:22,790 --> 04:03:20,160
on the internet of shows like mine or

6406
04:03:25,189 --> 04:03:22,800
shows in this general topic area that

6407
04:03:27,030 --> 04:03:25,199
now cover these topics more thoroughly

6408
04:03:29,349 --> 04:03:27,040
which is fantastic i think that's great

6409
04:03:30,710 --> 04:03:29,359
i'd love to be obsolete at some point

6410
04:03:33,269 --> 04:03:30,720
well you know one of the things that's

6411
04:03:34,710 --> 04:03:33,279
interesting about the medium of

6412
04:03:35,750 --> 04:03:34,720
podcasting

6413
04:03:37,670 --> 04:03:35,760
is that

6414
04:03:40,870 --> 04:03:37,680
these things live

6415
04:03:44,070 --> 04:03:40,880
forever in time and it's one of the real

6416
04:03:46,150 --> 04:03:44,080
fun things for me is getting emails from

6417
04:03:49,830 --> 04:03:46,160
folks who say hey i just discovered the

6418
04:03:51,670 --> 04:03:49,840
show on episode 140 and i've decided to

6419
04:03:53,750 --> 04:03:51,680
go back and listen from the beginning

6420
04:03:55,830 --> 04:03:53,760
you know i think wow that's so great i

6421
04:03:57,110 --> 04:03:55,840
mean that's i've done that so many times

6422
04:03:58,469 --> 04:03:57,120
in exploring something and getting

6423
04:04:00,469 --> 04:03:58,479
interested in it and then finding that

6424
04:04:02,309 --> 04:04:00,479
there's this library that i can go back

6425
04:04:03,910 --> 04:04:02,319
and listen to the project was supposed

6426
04:04:05,590 --> 04:04:03,920
to be a much grander project where i

6427
04:04:07,830 --> 04:04:05,600
would bring you some of the ideas from

6428
04:04:10,229 --> 04:04:07,840
some of the podcasters i most admire and

6429
04:04:13,110 --> 04:04:10,239
i think are really changing our

6430
04:04:15,110 --> 04:04:13,120
understanding of truth and reality i

6431
04:04:17,030 --> 04:04:15,120
have some in various stages of

6432
04:04:19,030 --> 04:04:17,040
development so if people really really

6433
04:04:21,030 --> 04:04:19,040
like it i'll try and push forward with

6434
04:04:23,429 --> 04:04:21,040
that but i basically abandoned that

6435
04:04:27,510 --> 04:04:23,439
project because it just didn't have any

6436
04:04:32,950 --> 04:04:29,830
so here first you talk about giving

6437
04:04:34,790 --> 04:04:32,960
voice but now there's so many others so

6438
04:04:37,269 --> 04:04:34,800
i wouldn't mind getting obsolete well

6439
04:04:39,590 --> 04:04:37,279
that statement could just be made before

6440
04:04:41,670 --> 04:04:39,600
the censor time because now we're back

6441
04:04:43,910 --> 04:04:41,680
to scratch now people are being

6442
04:04:46,469 --> 04:04:43,920
cancelled left and right so now we

6443
04:04:49,590 --> 04:04:46,479
really need a few shows that

6444
04:04:51,030 --> 04:04:49,600
still doesn't self-censor like that

6445
04:04:53,910 --> 04:04:51,040
then you talk about discovering other

6446
04:04:56,870 --> 04:04:53,920
shows the back uh catalog of course i

6447
04:04:59,510 --> 04:04:56,880
recognize that from when i discovered um

6448
04:05:02,790 --> 04:04:59,520
skeptical and i suspect you did the same

6449
04:05:05,429 --> 04:05:02,800
discovered my show alex and maybe miguel

6450
04:05:07,269 --> 04:05:05,439
did the same and then you to talk about

6451
04:05:08,950 --> 04:05:07,279
projects and that's interesting because

6452
04:05:10,790 --> 04:05:08,960
that's a callback to what we talked

6453
04:05:13,110 --> 04:05:10,800
about earlier alex that you've been

6454
04:05:15,750 --> 04:05:13,120
trying you've been doing experiments

6455
04:05:18,229 --> 04:05:15,760
you've experimented with the format

6456
04:05:21,110 --> 04:05:18,239
you've moved on in terms of subjects you

6457
04:05:23,189 --> 04:05:21,120
turn it into books and you even have

6458
04:05:27,030 --> 04:05:23,199
tried to move

6459
04:05:28,950 --> 04:05:27,040
and experiment with other mediums

6460
04:05:30,790 --> 04:05:28,960
and i guess that's a face you're not

6461
04:05:32,870 --> 04:05:30,800
completely done with yet

6462
04:05:34,150 --> 04:05:32,880
so well it's funny yep it's funny

6463
04:05:35,030 --> 04:05:34,160
because we're talking to a guy right

6464
04:05:36,950 --> 04:05:35,040
here

6465
04:05:38,950 --> 04:05:36,960
miguel connor exactly who was involved

6466
04:05:41,990 --> 04:05:38,960
in that i know

6467
04:05:43,830 --> 04:05:42,000
exactly because i had this idea to do

6468
04:05:44,950 --> 04:05:43,840
to really bring

6469
04:05:46,630 --> 04:05:44,960
just these

6470
04:05:50,070 --> 04:05:46,640
incredibly

6471
04:05:52,950 --> 04:05:50,080
gifted and deeply thinking people like

6472
04:05:55,189 --> 04:05:52,960
miguel who i i hope you can see one of

6473
04:05:56,389 --> 04:05:55,199
the things i i love is that i don't

6474
04:05:59,670 --> 04:05:56,399
exactly

6475
04:06:02,229 --> 04:05:59,680
sync up with miguel on everything but i

6476
04:06:04,790 --> 04:06:02,239
fundamentally sync up with miguel on the

6477
04:06:06,150 --> 04:06:04,800
most important heartfelt

6478
04:06:09,189 --> 04:06:06,160
uh

6479
04:06:11,110 --> 04:06:09,199
spirit felt kind of things and i was so

6480
04:06:13,110 --> 04:06:11,120
moved to that that you know we tried to

6481
04:06:14,710 --> 04:06:13,120
do this thing truth bump and i hired a

6482
04:06:18,150 --> 04:06:14,720
guy

6483
04:06:21,030 --> 04:06:18,160
and film miguel back when he lived in

6484
04:06:22,710 --> 04:06:21,040
chicago and i hired another guy in

6485
04:06:24,790 --> 04:06:22,720
russia who was very talented and did

6486
04:06:26,950 --> 04:06:24,800
some graphics and stuff like that and i

6487
04:06:28,469 --> 04:06:26,960
it ate my lunch i made it realized just

6488
04:06:30,790 --> 04:06:28,479
how hard it was

6489
04:06:33,030 --> 04:06:30,800
to put something like that together that

6490
04:06:35,670 --> 04:06:33,040
you know and and what we did the one

6491
04:06:37,590 --> 04:06:35,680
that i did and i published with miguel

6492
04:06:39,349 --> 04:06:37,600
on youtube it was i thought it was

6493
04:06:41,590 --> 04:06:39,359
really good and i thought it showed

6494
04:06:43,750 --> 04:06:41,600
it's just miguel but

6495
04:06:46,469 --> 04:06:43,760
yeah i i think what did you think of

6496
04:06:48,790 --> 04:06:46,479
that of that video i think it went i

6497
04:06:50,630 --> 04:06:48,800
think it came out really well i enjoyed

6498
04:06:53,429 --> 04:06:50,640
it so

6499
04:06:57,189 --> 04:06:55,030
but i don't know that it really i don't

6500
04:06:59,670 --> 04:06:57,199
know that it accomplished what we wanted

6501
04:07:02,309 --> 04:06:59,680
to accomplish is is do you think it was

6502
04:07:03,990 --> 04:07:02,319
a springboard for people to get into a

6503
04:07:06,389 --> 04:07:04,000
and bite or do you think

6504
04:07:09,110 --> 04:07:06,399
we need those kind of things or now it's

6505
04:07:11,830 --> 04:07:09,120
just there's so much i just think people

6506
04:07:14,150 --> 04:07:11,840
have to find it organically yeah i agree

6507
04:07:16,790 --> 04:07:14,160
i mean the advantage is that we can

6508
04:07:20,630 --> 04:07:16,800
experiment all we want why this is the

6509
04:07:23,110 --> 04:07:20,640
golden age of podcasting podcasting is

6510
04:07:26,550 --> 04:07:23,120
talk about moving culture and giving

6511
04:07:30,070 --> 04:07:26,560
people choices and everything so we can

6512
04:07:30,870 --> 04:07:30,080
play along we can fail we can tweak but

6513
04:07:37,510 --> 04:07:30,880
the

6514
04:07:40,070 --> 04:07:37,520
i was

6515
04:07:42,710 --> 04:07:40,080
i mean in our lifetimes we really

6516
04:07:44,710 --> 04:07:42,720
thought google was god the closest or

6517
04:07:47,269 --> 04:07:44,720
the closest thing to the demiurge the

6518
04:07:49,349 --> 04:07:47,279
supreme being of our culture

6519
04:07:51,990 --> 04:07:49,359
last year is the first year where google

6520
04:07:54,630 --> 04:07:52,000
is no longer the number one site it's

6521
04:07:56,469 --> 04:07:54,640
actually tick tock video is killing the

6522
04:07:58,229 --> 04:07:56,479
search engine star

6523
04:07:59,670 --> 04:07:58,239
i mean imagine

6524
04:08:01,189 --> 04:07:59,680
people are probably never thought they

6525
04:08:02,790 --> 04:08:01,199
would live in this world because google

6526
04:08:05,510 --> 04:08:02,800
is it's like again it's god it's

6527
04:08:08,229 --> 04:08:05,520
ubiquitous it's what we use every day

6528
04:08:10,950 --> 04:08:08,239
and now it's fallen and people are and

6529
04:08:13,110 --> 04:08:10,960
experts are saying it's not just

6530
04:08:15,590 --> 04:08:13,120
you know video and tick tock in the show

6531
04:08:18,710 --> 04:08:15,600
but it's podcasting that's where people

6532
04:08:21,269 --> 04:08:18,720
are going more than wikipedia more than

6533
04:08:23,349 --> 04:08:21,279
other places and people can discern they

6534
04:08:26,229 --> 04:08:23,359
can listen to this podcast and not

6535
04:08:28,149 --> 04:08:26,239
podcast and people email me i i wanted

6536
04:08:29,510 --> 04:08:28,159
to learn about this subject and that

6537
04:08:33,030 --> 04:08:29,520
subject so

6538
04:08:35,750 --> 04:08:33,040
it's a good time and so uh with truth

6539
04:08:38,309 --> 04:08:35,760
bomb again we can experiment we can go

6540
04:08:40,870 --> 04:08:38,319
to video we can do more youtube we can

6541
04:08:43,269 --> 04:08:40,880
try this that it's all

6542
04:08:45,110 --> 04:08:43,279
our voice will continue and you've gotta

6543
04:08:47,110 --> 04:08:45,120
you've gotta take those risks here and

6544
04:08:47,910 --> 04:08:47,120
there and learn from them that's for

6545
04:08:50,149 --> 04:08:47,920
sure

6546
04:08:52,790 --> 04:08:50,159
yeah but miguel you know why this is the

6547
04:08:55,750 --> 04:08:52,800
golden age of broadcast right and and

6548
04:08:58,630 --> 04:08:55,760
the the answer to that is also the same

6549
04:09:01,189 --> 04:08:58,640
answer to what will happen next

6550
04:09:03,030 --> 04:09:01,199
the reason it obviously is that it's the

6551
04:09:05,429 --> 04:09:03,040
last area

6552
04:09:07,349 --> 04:09:05,439
not being controlled and censored

6553
04:09:10,309 --> 04:09:07,359
which is why if you paid attention to an

6554
04:09:12,950 --> 04:09:10,319
rss speed it's out there you stream it

6555
04:09:14,550 --> 04:09:12,960
everybody gets it no no gatekeepers

6556
04:09:17,750 --> 04:09:14,560
really don't take tokyo no for

6557
04:09:19,429 --> 04:09:17,760
podcasting yeah but haven't you very

6558
04:09:22,389 --> 04:09:19,439
freaky it's still free but haven't you

6559
04:09:24,550 --> 04:09:22,399
noticed uh the campaign that's ramping

6560
04:09:28,550 --> 04:09:24,560
up not just against rogan

6561
04:09:30,870 --> 04:09:28,560
uh mainstream is calling [\h__\h] yeah

6562
04:09:33,269 --> 04:09:30,880
yes and the reason is that youtube used

6563
04:09:35,990 --> 04:09:33,279
to be like i remember guys i started at

6564
04:09:37,990 --> 04:09:36,000
youtube and youtube was a klondike back

6565
04:09:39,030 --> 04:09:38,000
in the day it was the wild west it was

6566
04:09:40,469 --> 04:09:39,040
amazing

6567
04:09:42,469 --> 04:09:40,479
it was and it was even better than

6568
04:09:44,790 --> 04:09:42,479
podcasting because we were being paid

6569
04:09:46,309 --> 04:09:44,800
instead of paying

6570
04:09:48,870 --> 04:09:46,319
now they're going to crack down on

6571
04:09:50,710 --> 04:09:48,880
podcasts if they're going to succeed

6572
04:09:52,550 --> 04:09:50,720
with the great reset or whatever you

6573
04:09:55,269 --> 04:09:52,560
want to call it they can't have this

6574
04:09:57,269 --> 04:09:55,279
little this huge space out there that's

6575
04:09:59,510 --> 04:09:57,279
not controlled by algorithm and

6576
04:10:02,149 --> 04:09:59,520
censorship and all that stuff so it's

6577
04:10:04,070 --> 04:10:02,159
coming guys it's coming

6578
04:10:05,830 --> 04:10:04,080
but we better enjoy it while we can

6579
04:10:07,030 --> 04:10:05,840
because yes it's still the last free

6580
04:10:09,110 --> 04:10:07,040
space

6581
04:10:12,309 --> 04:10:09,120
well that's why it's better to adapt i

6582
04:10:14,630 --> 04:10:12,319
mean go to places like rockfin odyssey i

6583
04:10:16,870 --> 04:10:14,640
mean yeah and like you said they they

6584
04:10:19,910 --> 04:10:16,880
have to take down rumble yeah they have

6585
04:10:21,189 --> 04:10:19,920
to take rogan down first that's it and

6586
04:10:22,950 --> 04:10:21,199
right now

6587
04:10:24,950 --> 04:10:22,960
he's got teflon

6588
04:10:29,110 --> 04:10:24,960
yeah alex

6589
04:10:32,389 --> 04:10:29,120
no i i'm i don't who knows okay

6590
04:10:34,550 --> 04:10:32,399
censorship this is important man

6591
04:10:36,469 --> 04:10:34,560
yes and he went quiet

6592
04:10:38,790 --> 04:10:36,479
but um go ahead

6593
04:10:41,349 --> 04:10:38,800
no no you want to say something talk

6594
04:10:44,229 --> 04:10:41,359
no i mean we'll we'll see we'll see it's

6595
04:10:45,590 --> 04:10:44,239
a constantly evolving thing i think what

6596
04:10:48,309 --> 04:10:45,600
what the guys are

6597
04:10:51,269 --> 04:10:48,319
with uh podcasting 2.0 are trying to do

6598
04:10:52,950 --> 04:10:51,279
is tremendous and it's a an attempt to

6599
04:10:55,429 --> 04:10:52,960
kind of circumvent

6600
04:10:57,269 --> 04:10:55,439
what we know is coming so yeah it's a

6601
04:10:59,189 --> 04:10:57,279
very tech conversation if you want to

6602
04:11:01,510 --> 04:10:59,199
get into it yeah

6603
04:11:03,510 --> 04:11:01,520
yeah i mean it's still the same thing of

6604
04:11:06,070 --> 04:11:03,520
uh controlling the narrative and all

6605
04:11:08,630 --> 04:11:06,080
that and it's gotten away from the elite

6606
04:11:11,429 --> 04:11:08,640
or the establishment so that's why

6607
04:11:12,950 --> 04:11:11,439
and they're trying but right now there's

6608
04:11:14,550 --> 04:11:12,960
they don't uh

6609
04:11:16,950 --> 04:11:14,560
they don't have a good plan because

6610
04:11:19,030 --> 04:11:16,960
again it's an rss feed and it goes

6611
04:11:21,189 --> 04:11:19,040
through apple it goes through all these

6612
04:11:22,630 --> 04:11:21,199
other places yes i know apple is more

6613
04:11:24,710 --> 04:11:22,640
centralized but

6614
04:11:27,269 --> 04:11:24,720
apple has been very good of just letting

6615
04:11:29,189 --> 04:11:27,279
all this information fly out

6616
04:11:31,269 --> 04:11:29,199
if there's any place i've gotten strikes

6617
04:11:33,910 --> 04:11:31,279
before it's all on youtube only on

6618
04:11:35,269 --> 04:11:33,920
youtube if i'd had my videos taken down

6619
04:11:37,510 --> 04:11:35,279
and uh

6620
04:11:38,710 --> 04:11:37,520
even well youtube is turning into a

6621
04:11:41,590 --> 04:11:38,720
disaster

6622
04:11:42,630 --> 04:11:41,600
yeah after google uh purchased it but of

6623
04:11:44,870 --> 04:11:42,640
course

6624
04:11:47,030 --> 04:11:44,880
it's a rigged game

6625
04:11:48,630 --> 04:11:47,040
because those who own

6626
04:11:51,590 --> 04:11:48,640
the big platforms

6627
04:11:53,590 --> 04:11:51,600
is the same who owns

6628
04:11:56,309 --> 04:11:53,600
the those who advertise on those

6629
04:11:59,510 --> 04:11:56,319
platforms and are the same who owns the

6630
04:12:01,590 --> 04:11:59,520
mainstream media so it's the same owners

6631
04:12:03,189 --> 04:12:01,600
and of course they don't

6632
04:12:05,510 --> 04:12:03,199
they panicked when they realized that

6633
04:12:08,070 --> 04:12:05,520
everyone is turning away from one part

6634
04:12:09,269 --> 04:12:08,080
of their industry namely television and

6635
04:12:12,389 --> 04:12:09,279
newspapers

6636
04:12:14,950 --> 04:12:12,399
on to youtube especially youtube so they

6637
04:12:16,950 --> 04:12:14,960
purchased youtube because otherwise they

6638
04:12:18,309 --> 04:12:16,960
would be paying us

6639
04:12:21,030 --> 04:12:18,319
for ruining

6640
04:12:23,189 --> 04:12:21,040
their mainstream media they are paying

6641
04:12:24,870 --> 04:12:23,199
it's their products their advertisement

6642
04:12:28,309 --> 04:12:24,880
products and then paying us with

6643
04:12:31,030 --> 04:12:28,319
advertisement on their platform

6644
04:12:33,189 --> 04:12:31,040
so it was a suicidal model for them in

6645
04:12:35,269 --> 04:12:33,199
their kind of paradigm where they want

6646
04:12:36,870 --> 04:12:35,279
total control right so yeah we've been

6647
04:12:40,870 --> 04:12:36,880
flushed out

6648
04:12:42,950 --> 04:12:40,880
and yeah podcast is the last uh bastion

6649
04:12:44,710 --> 04:12:42,960
precisely as miguel says it's much

6650
04:12:46,630 --> 04:12:44,720
harder to to control but i'm sure

6651
04:12:50,630 --> 04:12:46,640
they're going to find a way

6652
04:12:55,830 --> 04:12:52,950
yeah well it's like what blogging was 10

6653
04:12:58,469 --> 04:12:55,840
15 years ago everybody had a blog there

6654
04:13:01,830 --> 04:12:58,479
was a lot of controversial blogs people

6655
04:13:04,149 --> 04:13:01,840
went to the comment sections to fight uh

6656
04:13:05,670 --> 04:13:04,159
and all that and then it sort of is as

6657
04:13:10,229 --> 04:13:05,680
mutated

6658
04:13:13,750 --> 04:13:10,239
into the podcasting format and that's

6659
04:13:16,070 --> 04:13:13,760
really exploded uh because of the it's

6660
04:13:18,790 --> 04:13:16,080
hard to control and people really are

6661
04:13:20,389 --> 04:13:18,800
thirsty for finding information and

6662
04:13:22,870 --> 04:13:20,399
trying to understand what's going out

6663
04:13:25,910 --> 04:13:22,880
there or finding voices out there they

6664
04:13:29,110 --> 04:13:25,920
can relate to i mean podcasting is so

6665
04:13:31,590 --> 04:13:29,120
extensive from cooking to short story

6666
04:13:34,149 --> 04:13:31,600
interpretations i mean everything you

6667
04:13:36,790 --> 04:13:34,159
want you really have it at a fingertip

6668
04:13:39,429 --> 04:13:36,800
but with a very human

6669
04:13:41,750 --> 04:13:39,439
uh expression or feel these are real

6670
04:13:43,510 --> 04:13:41,760
people who are behind the microphone who

6671
04:13:45,910 --> 04:13:43,520
you can connect and the way you couldn't

6672
04:13:48,149 --> 04:13:45,920
with other aspects of the internet

6673
04:13:50,469 --> 04:13:48,159
exactly that that's one of the things

6674
04:13:53,030 --> 04:13:50,479
jurgen and alex has in common that

6675
04:13:55,990 --> 04:13:53,040
everybody who who tunes into those

6676
04:13:57,189 --> 04:13:56,000
podcasts immediately recognize that this

6677
04:13:59,990 --> 04:13:57,199
is a

6678
04:14:01,349 --> 04:14:00,000
guy on a truth quest it's a sincere

6679
04:14:04,070 --> 04:14:01,359
fellow

6680
04:14:06,630 --> 04:14:04,080
who who is not driven by the ego

6681
04:14:08,630 --> 04:14:06,640
on a truth quest

6682
04:14:11,590 --> 04:14:08,640
and that's the uh

6683
04:14:13,590 --> 04:14:11,600
key to success i i guess alex the

6684
04:14:14,950 --> 04:14:13,600
difference between you is that rogan is

6685
04:14:16,710 --> 04:14:14,960
content with

6686
04:14:18,550 --> 04:14:16,720
uh staying down at the foot of the

6687
04:14:21,189 --> 04:14:18,560
mountain this is a callback to uh

6688
04:14:23,510 --> 04:14:21,199
metaphor we used earlier so you forgiven

6689
04:14:25,510 --> 04:14:23,520
if you don't get this miguel but

6690
04:14:27,349 --> 04:14:25,520
rogan is is is

6691
04:14:29,269 --> 04:14:27,359
running around the mountain while you

6692
04:14:31,030 --> 04:14:29,279
are insisting on going to the mountain

6693
04:14:33,349 --> 04:14:31,040
top

6694
04:14:36,070 --> 04:14:33,359
yeah i'm very reluctant to comment you

6695
04:14:39,110 --> 04:14:36,080
know because joe rogan is in such a

6696
04:14:41,429 --> 04:14:39,120
different class than the tiny little

6697
04:14:42,309 --> 04:14:41,439
shows that we do and it's just a whole

6698
04:14:43,830 --> 04:14:42,319
different

6699
04:14:45,590 --> 04:14:43,840
dynamic and i don't think the difference

6700
04:14:47,990 --> 04:14:45,600
is the number of people tuning in what

6701
04:14:49,349 --> 04:14:48,000
do you mean well i don't i don't know i

6702
04:14:51,269 --> 04:14:49,359
just think that's a

6703
04:14:52,950 --> 04:14:51,279
everyone wants a you know i don't know

6704
04:14:54,630 --> 04:14:52,960
we don't even know if

6705
04:14:56,550 --> 04:14:54,640
where that whole thing is going to go

6706
04:14:58,790 --> 04:14:56,560
and i don't know if he's good or

6707
04:15:01,110 --> 04:14:58,800
good or bad or anything i've you got to

6708
04:15:04,550 --> 04:15:01,120
say great great what he's accomplished

6709
04:15:07,670 --> 04:15:04,560
has clearly been overall good yeah yeah

6710
04:15:09,590 --> 04:15:07,680
i don't listen too much i'll be honest

6711
04:15:12,469 --> 04:15:09,600
i mean i'm just like any joe i look at

6712
04:15:14,149 --> 04:15:12,479
the guests first i go okay the guess if

6713
04:15:16,309 --> 04:15:14,159
i'm interested i'm interested that's

6714
04:15:18,710 --> 04:15:16,319
that's the beauty of it same with any

6715
04:15:20,630 --> 04:15:18,720
other podcaster what's the guess what i

6716
04:15:21,910 --> 04:15:20,640
think their chemistry will be like and

6717
04:15:24,950 --> 04:15:21,920
then

6718
04:15:26,630 --> 04:15:24,960
make my decision so but he does

6719
04:15:29,750 --> 04:15:26,640
it's amazing because he does put out a

6720
04:15:32,870 --> 04:15:29,760
lot of content he's always done you know

6721
04:15:35,030 --> 04:15:32,880
three to four podcasts a week three

6722
04:15:37,750 --> 04:15:35,040
hours i don't know how you i mean that

6723
04:15:39,590 --> 04:15:37,760
takes quite a bit of constitution plus

6724
04:15:41,670 --> 04:15:39,600
the research you have to do on the site

6725
04:15:44,790 --> 04:15:41,680
each one of us probably spends quite a

6726
04:15:47,830 --> 04:15:44,800
bit on hours on one single guess one

6727
04:15:48,950 --> 04:15:47,840
single week and that's a lot of work and

6728
04:15:50,870 --> 04:15:48,960
he's just

6729
04:15:51,990 --> 04:15:50,880
you know consistent

6730
04:15:54,710 --> 04:15:52,000
long

6731
04:15:56,710 --> 04:15:54,720
and again he just takes he asks

6732
04:15:58,950 --> 04:15:56,720
questions but he shows his humanity he

6733
04:16:01,910 --> 04:15:58,960
says well i did this and it reminds me

6734
04:16:05,110 --> 04:16:01,920
of this and so forth hmm

6735
04:16:07,830 --> 04:16:05,120
he can be corrected on air without uh

6736
04:16:11,110 --> 04:16:07,840
letting his ego freak out

6737
04:16:12,469 --> 04:16:11,120
like the guest said he's a big boy

6738
04:16:15,269 --> 04:16:12,479
so

6739
04:16:17,110 --> 04:16:15,279
yeah there are parallels there i have

6740
04:16:19,590 --> 04:16:17,120
one more question topical question and

6741
04:16:23,510 --> 04:16:19,600
then we'll wind down uh it has to do

6742
04:16:27,349 --> 04:16:23,520
with ufos um it's weird alex i'm not

6743
04:16:30,389 --> 04:16:27,359
sure if you miguel have you covered ufos

6744
04:16:32,469 --> 04:16:30,399
yes definitely i have covered ufos

6745
04:16:35,269 --> 04:16:32,479
yeah probably once one out of every 30

6746
04:16:37,189 --> 04:16:35,279
shows or 20 shows right in in connection

6747
04:16:39,269 --> 04:16:37,199
with narcissism right yeah yeah i mean

6748
04:16:42,309 --> 04:16:39,279
because gnosticism is like

6749
04:16:43,349 --> 04:16:42,319
some have said the original star or ufo

6750
04:16:44,309 --> 04:16:43,359
cult

6751
04:16:46,550 --> 04:16:44,319
yeah

6752
04:16:48,630 --> 04:16:46,560
well me and alex like you we're not a

6753
04:16:50,389 --> 04:16:48,640
youth or show but we've touched it but

6754
04:16:51,510 --> 04:16:50,399
maybe i'm wrong alex but it's funny

6755
04:16:53,349 --> 04:16:51,520
because

6756
04:16:55,349 --> 04:16:53,359
like i said i i think you're heading in

6757
04:16:57,269 --> 04:16:55,359
the esoteric direction that's always

6758
04:16:59,510 --> 04:16:57,279
where people end up that's the top of

6759
04:17:01,429 --> 04:16:59,520
the mountain if you like and you would

6760
04:17:03,990 --> 04:17:01,439
expect them

6761
04:17:05,990 --> 04:17:04,000
with the consciousness approach that i

6762
04:17:08,950 --> 04:17:06,000
would have owned let's say graham

6763
04:17:11,590 --> 04:17:08,960
hancock for that take on the

6764
04:17:13,750 --> 04:17:11,600
ufo approach right but no instead my

6765
04:17:16,389 --> 04:17:13,760
main focus has been on the

6766
04:17:18,790 --> 04:17:16,399
human space programs the classified

6767
04:17:20,710 --> 04:17:18,800
space programs the human-made

6768
04:17:23,110 --> 04:17:20,720
flying sources if you like

6769
04:17:25,349 --> 04:17:23,120
and alex we would expect the same that

6770
04:17:28,790 --> 04:17:25,359
you too would have that perspective but

6771
04:17:29,670 --> 04:17:28,800
you've had you've had the e.t alien kind

6772
04:17:31,110 --> 04:17:29,680
of

6773
04:17:32,950 --> 04:17:31,120
uh perspective

6774
04:17:35,910 --> 04:17:32,960
which is kind of weird because both of

6775
04:17:37,510 --> 04:17:35,920
us are so rooted in the i mean it goes

6776
04:17:41,269 --> 04:17:37,520
without saying that that would be the

6777
04:17:44,149 --> 04:17:41,279
first uh model to explore right the

6778
04:17:46,389 --> 04:17:44,159
paradigm dimensional consciousness thing

6779
04:17:48,710 --> 04:17:46,399
common to that

6780
04:17:49,910 --> 04:17:48,720
oh man i mean we could do

6781
04:17:53,189 --> 04:17:49,920
two hours

6782
04:17:54,950 --> 04:17:53,199
on that i i think that uh

6783
04:17:57,990 --> 04:17:54,960
here's my take and i have an interview

6784
04:18:00,389 --> 04:17:58,000
coming up with uh just a fantastic

6785
04:18:02,550 --> 04:18:00,399
person his name is uh robert hastings if

6786
04:18:04,790 --> 04:18:02,560
you've heard of him but he's the ufo and

6787
04:18:06,710 --> 04:18:04,800
nukes guy he's been doing the work for

6788
04:18:08,790 --> 04:18:06,720
40 years and then he just came out a

6789
04:18:10,950 --> 04:18:08,800
couple years ago and acknowledged that

6790
04:18:13,750 --> 04:18:10,960
he was an abductee and that he's had

6791
04:18:16,469 --> 04:18:13,760
contact for his whole life and his

6792
04:18:19,110 --> 04:18:16,479
mother even as a suspect he suspects has

6793
04:18:21,429 --> 04:18:19,120
contact from the stories he told he was

6794
04:18:22,550 --> 04:18:21,439
reluctant to come out and say that

6795
04:18:23,590 --> 04:18:22,560
because

6796
04:18:25,269 --> 04:18:23,600
of

6797
04:18:27,269 --> 04:18:25,279
the reaction he would get from the nuts

6798
04:18:30,389 --> 04:18:27,279
and bolts part of the ufo community

6799
04:18:32,550 --> 04:18:30,399
which you're kind of alluding to there

6800
04:18:36,149 --> 04:18:32,560
but there's an interesting juxtaposition

6801
04:18:38,710 --> 04:18:36,159
there because his ufo and nukes

6802
04:18:41,910 --> 04:18:38,720
information his research is some of the

6803
04:18:45,269 --> 04:18:41,920
most compelling research for the reality

6804
04:18:48,469 --> 04:18:45,279
of the nuts and bolts reality of craft

6805
04:18:50,550 --> 04:18:48,479
that fly over nuclear bases and disarm

6806
04:18:51,830 --> 04:18:50,560
missiles and that we don't know how

6807
04:18:54,229 --> 04:18:51,840
they're doing it but we have multiple

6808
04:18:57,189 --> 04:18:54,239
observers both above ground and below

6809
04:18:59,189 --> 04:18:57,199
ground and they disable all the missiles

6810
04:19:02,149 --> 04:18:59,199
which is obviously sending some kind of

6811
04:19:04,630 --> 04:19:02,159
message about what they think about our

6812
04:19:07,429 --> 04:19:04,640
technology and the the what we're so

6813
04:19:10,309 --> 04:19:07,439
proud of and then lo and behold the iron

6814
04:19:12,870 --> 04:19:10,319
curtain comes down the soviets come down

6815
04:19:14,630 --> 04:19:12,880
and we find in their secret ufo files

6816
04:19:17,830 --> 04:19:14,640
that they have the same experience only

6817
04:19:19,670 --> 04:19:17,840
there the ufos turned on the missiles in

6818
04:19:22,070 --> 04:19:19,680
ukraine and they said there what are you

6819
04:19:24,070 --> 04:19:22,080
going to do in 10 minutes countdown

6820
04:19:26,950 --> 04:19:24,080
you're going to destroy the earth and

6821
04:19:30,389 --> 04:19:26,960
then the ufos shut off the missiles so

6822
04:19:32,389 --> 04:19:30,399
anyone who wants to kind of pull the ufo

6823
04:19:34,710 --> 04:19:32,399
thing into the consciousness realm which

6824
04:19:36,469 --> 04:19:34,720
i'm you have to because there's a

6825
04:19:38,950 --> 04:19:36,479
consciousness element to it there's

6826
04:19:40,469 --> 04:19:38,960
telepathy there there's precognition

6827
04:19:43,110 --> 04:19:40,479
there there's all these other things

6828
04:19:45,590 --> 04:19:43,120
there you have to start by saying

6829
04:19:48,070 --> 04:19:45,600
whatever this reality is whatever this

6830
04:19:49,510 --> 04:19:48,080
consensus reality is they're definitely

6831
04:19:51,670 --> 04:19:49,520
a part of that

6832
04:19:54,469 --> 04:19:51,680
could be space nazis

6833
04:19:58,870 --> 04:19:54,479
don't say that my name is

6834
04:20:03,110 --> 04:20:00,950
yeah that space nazis are joined forces

6835
04:20:06,070 --> 04:20:03,120
with the archons

6836
04:20:08,149 --> 04:20:06,080
yeah exactly exactly watch out

6837
04:20:10,469 --> 04:20:08,159
yeah the ufo thing is elaborate it's

6838
04:20:13,910 --> 04:20:10,479
such elaborate it's its own labyrinth

6839
04:20:16,550 --> 04:20:13,920
itself it's like it is it is indeed i i

6840
04:20:19,189 --> 04:20:16,560
hate that i hate that

6841
04:20:22,389 --> 04:20:19,199
it's like everything is a labyrinth

6842
04:20:24,950 --> 04:20:22,399
we're just but we can nudge closer to

6843
04:20:27,830 --> 04:20:24,960
the truth that's that's my final that's

6844
04:20:28,630 --> 04:20:27,840
my final shot my final parting shot is

6845
04:20:30,950 --> 04:20:28,640
yeah but

6846
04:20:33,269 --> 04:20:30,960
i don't think so i mean i think on a

6847
04:20:35,750 --> 04:20:33,279
cursory look anybody and again we're

6848
04:20:39,110 --> 04:20:35,760
talking about honesty and truth alex

6849
04:20:41,510 --> 04:20:39,120
you can take an hour or two and at the

6850
04:20:44,469 --> 04:20:41,520
very least you'll come by and say you

6851
04:20:47,110 --> 04:20:44,479
know what the official narrative of 9 11

6852
04:20:49,990 --> 04:20:47,120
is [\h__\h] same with kennedy just two

6853
04:20:52,870 --> 04:20:50,000
hours okay i'll give you five hours

6854
04:20:54,389 --> 04:20:52,880
that's it and it's so obvious now

6855
04:20:57,349 --> 04:20:54,399
with the nuts and bolts

6856
04:21:00,469 --> 04:20:57,359
of 911 who's behind it and all that that

6857
04:21:03,110 --> 04:21:00,479
might take but it doesn't know with ufos

6858
04:21:05,990 --> 04:21:03,120
there's like a million ways we could go

6859
04:21:07,429 --> 04:21:06,000
into it and see it i mean it just i

6860
04:21:09,830 --> 04:21:07,439
think we're talking about different

6861
04:21:11,189 --> 04:21:09,840
realms here that's that's exactly to my

6862
04:21:13,030 --> 04:21:11,199
point how

6863
04:21:14,870 --> 04:21:13,040
how in your estimation

6864
04:21:16,990 --> 04:21:14,880
is it is it different i just gave you

6865
04:21:22,149 --> 04:21:17,000
example of just the kind of

6866
04:21:24,309 --> 04:21:22,159
911-ish or jfk ish data robert hastings

6867
04:21:25,269 --> 04:21:24,319
interviewed over a hundred

6868
04:21:27,429 --> 04:21:25,279
uh

6869
04:21:30,870 --> 04:21:27,439
high-ranking many of them high-ranking

6870
04:21:33,830 --> 04:21:30,880
but credible military personnel who saw

6871
04:21:36,229 --> 04:21:33,840
the ufos in the nukes so

6872
04:21:38,550 --> 04:21:36,239
why why is that not at the same time

6873
04:21:41,189 --> 04:21:38,560
this could be a breakaway civilization

6874
04:21:43,750 --> 04:21:41,199
this could be the nordics it could be

6875
04:21:45,910 --> 04:21:43,760
again laugh about the space nazis it

6876
04:21:48,229 --> 04:21:45,920
could be anti-delivery

6877
04:21:50,149 --> 04:21:48,239
it could be aliens from a certain planet

6878
04:21:52,229 --> 04:21:50,159
but you see what i'm saying there's a

6879
04:21:53,990 --> 04:21:52,239
million

6880
04:21:55,670 --> 04:21:54,000
no i i don't because i think you're

6881
04:21:57,349 --> 04:21:55,680
applying a completely different standard

6882
04:22:00,389 --> 04:21:57,359
i mean you could you could apply that

6883
04:22:02,870 --> 04:22:00,399
same standard of something completely

6884
04:22:05,269 --> 04:22:02,880
outside of our consensus reality

6885
04:22:09,110 --> 04:22:07,030
yeah we could go down there yeah i guess

6886
04:22:12,070 --> 04:22:09,120
we could go down that rabbit hole

6887
04:22:13,670 --> 04:22:12,080
but uh yeah

6888
04:22:15,510 --> 04:22:13,680
yeah it could have been a

6889
04:22:17,510 --> 04:22:15,520
it could have been a mystical ritual

6890
04:22:20,229 --> 04:22:17,520
sometimes that's what i leaned towards

6891
04:22:22,469 --> 04:22:20,239
some sort of mass satanic ritual but

6892
04:22:25,110 --> 04:22:22,479
that ties in with the government though

6893
04:22:29,670 --> 04:22:25,120
yeah but i think there's a built-in bias

6894
04:22:33,189 --> 04:22:29,680
that we've accepted to question the ufo

6895
04:22:35,030 --> 04:22:33,199
and the alien contact in a way that

6896
04:22:37,349 --> 04:22:35,040
doesn't doesn't conform to the same

6897
04:22:40,149 --> 04:22:37,359
standards in terms of evidence and

6898
04:22:42,710 --> 04:22:40,159
acceptance of it that we do in these

6899
04:22:45,510 --> 04:22:42,720
other fields that it within this kind of

6900
04:22:47,750 --> 04:22:45,520
truth or community that we are are okay

6901
04:22:50,229 --> 04:22:47,760
with so we're okay with saying okay i

6902
04:22:53,349 --> 04:22:50,239
got the basic narrative on 911. it was

6903
04:22:56,469 --> 04:22:53,359
an inside job we seemed less okay with

6904
04:23:00,389 --> 04:22:56,479
saying i got the story on ufos there's

6905
04:23:03,429 --> 04:23:00,399
spacecraft that come here that travel at

6906
04:23:05,189 --> 04:23:03,439
unbeliev that defy our laws of physics

6907
04:23:07,590 --> 04:23:05,199
we don't know where they're coming from

6908
04:23:10,070 --> 04:23:07,600
exactly we don't know who's behind them

6909
04:23:13,269 --> 04:23:10,080
exactly but that is a reality in our

6910
04:23:15,349 --> 04:23:13,279
consensus reality in the same way that

6911
04:23:17,670 --> 04:23:15,359
the videos we saw in building seven and

6912
04:23:20,550 --> 04:23:17,680
the big hole they have there in new york

6913
04:23:21,830 --> 04:23:20,560
is a consensus reality that we that we

6914
04:23:24,790 --> 04:23:21,840
accept

6915
04:23:27,590 --> 04:23:24,800
so so do you think that anything it's

6916
04:23:29,429 --> 04:23:27,600
possible to to uncover the truth of

6917
04:23:31,349 --> 04:23:29,439
anything well we need to we need

6918
04:23:34,149 --> 04:23:31,359
evidence of these spacecraft we need oh

6919
04:23:37,429 --> 04:23:34,159
no we need a spacecraft here that we can

6920
04:23:39,750 --> 04:23:37,439
look at and roswell obviously yeah but

6921
04:23:42,149 --> 04:23:39,760
that doesn't necessarily doesn't explain

6922
04:23:44,710 --> 04:23:42,159
ufos it may explain a little part of the

6923
04:23:47,349 --> 04:23:44,720
phenomenon but graham hancock will throw

6924
04:23:49,189 --> 04:23:47,359
a book at your head which it doesn't

6925
04:23:50,710 --> 04:23:49,199
explain well jacques is the one you know

6926
04:23:52,950 --> 04:23:50,720
what i mean yeah

6927
04:23:55,910 --> 04:23:52,960
chuck fillet is the person that yeah but

6928
04:23:58,229 --> 04:23:55,920
what people forget is that jacques valet

6929
04:24:01,510 --> 04:23:58,239
walks around with a piece of alien

6930
04:24:03,110 --> 04:24:01,520
spacecraft in his pocket and he's

6931
04:24:07,830 --> 04:24:03,120
analyzed it with the most people he's

6932
04:24:12,550 --> 04:24:09,750
the point is when people want to go the

6933
04:24:15,510 --> 04:24:12,560
full uh consciousness blob thing for

6934
04:24:19,030 --> 04:24:15,520
ufos it's just enough to me it just

6935
04:24:21,349 --> 04:24:19,040
looks so much like another another block

6936
04:24:23,910 --> 04:24:21,359
another you know i can't go there i

6937
04:24:26,149 --> 04:24:23,920
can't cross that crazy line kind of

6938
04:24:29,670 --> 04:24:26,159
thing again i just point to the ufo and

6939
04:24:32,389 --> 04:24:29,680
nukes thing the the concrete evidence is

6940
04:24:34,309 --> 04:24:32,399
overwhelming in any other's case we just

6941
04:24:36,229 --> 04:24:34,319
say okay that's a reality we don't

6942
04:24:38,710 --> 04:24:36,239
understand the details of it but it is a

6943
04:24:40,309 --> 04:24:38,720
reality that they have come

6944
04:24:43,750 --> 04:24:40,319
and visited these

6945
04:24:47,269 --> 04:24:43,760
but remember what ufos are ufos are just

6946
04:24:49,349 --> 04:24:47,279
a generic oh my god no it's just a term

6947
04:24:51,590 --> 04:24:49,359
for everything we don't know i have seen

6948
04:24:54,389 --> 04:24:51,600
ufos these things were space they were

6949
04:24:56,309 --> 04:24:54,399
from space it was wild and even jacques

6950
04:24:59,750 --> 04:24:56,319
valet you know again going full blown

6951
04:25:02,710 --> 04:24:59,760
gnostic and he does say always ignore

6952
04:25:04,950 --> 04:25:02,720
their ontological reality at your own

6953
04:25:07,830 --> 04:25:04,960
peril in other words he's warning people

6954
04:25:11,349 --> 04:25:07,840
you will go insane if you go yeah if you

6955
04:25:13,429 --> 04:25:11,359
they are real and they are tangible but

6956
04:25:14,870 --> 04:25:13,439
that's about it but the rest is really

6957
04:25:17,349 --> 04:25:14,880
up to us

6958
04:25:18,790 --> 04:25:17,359
it's much easier to know what isn't true

6959
04:25:22,229 --> 04:25:18,800
when it comes to these things like we

6960
04:25:25,670 --> 04:25:22,239
know the official narrative of jfk or

6961
04:25:27,110 --> 04:25:25,680
911 is not true okay but after that alex

6962
04:25:29,510 --> 04:25:27,120
you can't say it's a clean thing

6963
04:25:32,070 --> 04:25:29,520
everybody agrees i just had joseph

6964
04:25:35,110 --> 04:25:32,080
farallon on 911

6965
04:25:37,750 --> 04:25:35,120
and and he's introducing a third layer

6966
04:25:39,750 --> 04:25:37,760
beyond the inside job thing which also

6967
04:25:42,389 --> 04:25:39,760
webster top they do so people no of

6968
04:25:44,790 --> 04:25:42,399
course we don't because we don't know

6969
04:25:46,950 --> 04:25:44,800
we know what's not real

6970
04:25:49,990 --> 04:25:46,960
the the sedation they're offering us

6971
04:25:52,550 --> 04:25:50,000
that's [\h__\h] but then the hard work

6972
04:25:55,590 --> 04:25:52,560
of finding out what is real and in that

6973
04:25:57,590 --> 04:25:55,600
area yes it's very legitimate to explore

6974
04:25:59,349 --> 04:25:57,600
all the certain aspects

6975
04:26:00,630 --> 04:25:59,359
but i i don't think it's going to be as

6976
04:26:02,309 --> 04:26:00,640
simple as

6977
04:26:04,309 --> 04:26:02,319
you know what you did in the beginning

6978
04:26:06,469 --> 04:26:04,319
of skeptical namely

6979
04:26:08,790 --> 04:26:06,479
immediately revealing

6980
04:26:10,870 --> 04:26:08,800
exposing the skeptics and their agenda

6981
04:26:13,590 --> 04:26:10,880
and and therefore and the

6982
04:26:15,830 --> 04:26:13,600
way manipulate data etc yes we can do

6983
04:26:18,630 --> 04:26:15,840
that in terms of finding out what's not

6984
04:26:20,550 --> 04:26:18,640
true you did that with a skeptic so yeah

6985
04:26:22,710 --> 04:26:20,560
that part of reality they tried to sell

6986
04:26:24,710 --> 04:26:22,720
us is [\h__\h] but then finding out what

6987
04:26:25,670 --> 04:26:24,720
is true you're still on that quest you

6988
04:26:27,110 --> 04:26:25,680
still

6989
04:26:30,469 --> 04:26:27,120
even though you explore near-death

6990
04:26:32,950 --> 04:26:30,479
experience you explore power psychology

6991
04:26:35,030 --> 04:26:32,960
you know consciousness is key but is

6992
04:26:37,349 --> 04:26:35,040
that a close chapter have you figured it

6993
04:26:39,189 --> 04:26:37,359
out no of course not and i think the

6994
04:26:42,309 --> 04:26:39,199
same we are doomed

6995
04:26:46,229 --> 04:26:42,319
uh for the same when it comes to ufos

6996
04:26:48,870 --> 04:26:46,239
okay yeah as i say also uh as

6997
04:26:50,710 --> 04:26:48,880
uh experts or scholars said you know the

6998
04:26:52,790 --> 04:26:50,720
best argument's the best argument let's

6999
04:26:55,110 --> 04:26:52,800
say farrell comes with the best argument

7000
04:26:57,510 --> 04:26:55,120
for 9 11. and this is like oh my god

7001
04:26:59,990 --> 04:26:57,520
al's like this is it that does not

7002
04:27:02,309 --> 04:27:00,000
invalidate the second best argument or

7003
04:27:04,950 --> 04:27:02,319
the third best argument or the fourth

7004
04:27:06,389 --> 04:27:04,960
those arguments still exist and have to

7005
04:27:09,429 --> 04:27:06,399
be held up

7006
04:27:11,349 --> 04:27:09,439
until more data comes an event you know

7007
04:27:13,670 --> 04:27:11,359
so these arguments uh there's nothing

7008
04:27:14,710 --> 04:27:13,680
wrong with four or five strong arguments

7009
04:27:17,189 --> 04:27:14,720
or even

7010
04:27:19,670 --> 04:27:17,199
two or two strong arguments and two weak

7011
04:27:22,389 --> 04:27:19,680
ones the they're all part of the they

7012
04:27:25,510 --> 04:27:22,399
they matter they all matter

7013
04:27:27,750 --> 04:27:25,520
yeah let me say uh miguel that you know

7014
04:27:29,750 --> 04:27:27,760
that i realized something i forgot to

7015
04:27:31,510 --> 04:27:29,760
tell my guest yesterday mark gober we

7016
04:27:33,510 --> 04:27:31,520
were discussing the show is going to be

7017
04:27:35,269 --> 04:27:33,520
called the case for liberty

7018
04:27:36,990 --> 04:27:35,279
but i forgot to say something that you

7019
04:27:40,950 --> 04:27:37,000
reminded me of now and that's the

7020
04:27:42,550 --> 04:27:40,960
incredible important ability to suspend

7021
04:27:44,710 --> 04:27:42,560
judgment

7022
04:27:47,670 --> 04:27:44,720
it's completely lacking today especially

7023
04:27:48,469 --> 04:27:47,680
in america but the whole culture is is

7024
04:27:49,510 --> 04:27:48,479
sick

7025
04:27:50,870 --> 04:27:49,520
people do

7026
04:27:51,830 --> 04:27:50,880
don't care about truth they want to be

7027
04:27:52,790 --> 04:27:51,840
right

7028
04:27:54,389 --> 04:27:52,800
whether they're

7029
04:27:56,389 --> 04:27:54,399
even if they're wrong right but you

7030
04:27:59,189 --> 04:27:56,399
don't have to make a verdict of

7031
04:28:01,670 --> 04:27:59,199
everything you can if i don't know i put

7032
04:28:03,590 --> 04:28:01,680
it on the shelf and i'm either open to

7033
04:28:06,389 --> 04:28:03,600
it or i wait until

7034
04:28:08,389 --> 04:28:06,399
i get more data like you said that's the

7035
04:28:11,110 --> 04:28:08,399
best approach it's not the same as

7036
04:28:12,630 --> 04:28:11,120
agnosticism because that's agnostic if

7037
04:28:13,990 --> 04:28:12,640
you're agnostic then you're a chicken

7038
04:28:15,030 --> 04:28:14,000
you don't want to relay you don't want

7039
04:28:16,950 --> 04:28:15,040
to

7040
04:28:18,870 --> 04:28:16,960
take any stand

7041
04:28:22,149 --> 04:28:18,880
here we're taking stands where we can

7042
04:28:23,750 --> 04:28:22,159
take a stand based on experience and

7043
04:28:26,389 --> 04:28:23,760
data but

7044
04:28:28,550 --> 04:28:26,399
some fields are just so huge some fields

7045
04:28:29,830 --> 04:28:28,560
are maybe too huge for a human being to

7046
04:28:32,469 --> 04:28:29,840
really decode

7047
04:28:34,389 --> 04:28:32,479
but we don't have to make up our minds

7048
04:28:37,030 --> 04:28:34,399
about everything all the time we can

7049
04:28:38,870 --> 04:28:37,040
wait and see while we continue to

7050
04:28:40,710 --> 04:28:38,880
explore it if you see what i mean i mean

7051
04:28:43,349 --> 04:28:40,720
okay maybe it's self-evident in this

7052
04:28:45,349 --> 04:28:43,359
company but if you look out there nobody

7053
04:28:47,349 --> 04:28:45,359
almost is practicing that

7054
04:28:49,830 --> 04:28:47,359
not in this country it's like you said

7055
04:28:53,910 --> 04:28:49,840
it's either or and you have to

7056
04:28:56,710 --> 04:28:53,920
circle your wagons around an issue and

7057
04:28:58,469 --> 04:28:56,720
reject everything else instead of again

7058
04:29:01,670 --> 04:28:58,479
look at all the arguments and see where

7059
04:29:04,469 --> 04:29:01,680
they go i mean like tartaria my god

7060
04:29:05,910 --> 04:29:04,479
tells me the tartaria argument is uh

7061
04:29:08,950 --> 04:29:05,920
bunk but

7062
04:29:11,269 --> 04:29:08,960
i'm i'm slowly gathering data i'm slowly

7063
04:29:14,389 --> 04:29:11,279
i'm eventually gonna interview somebody

7064
04:29:17,110 --> 04:29:14,399
on it and i'm open-minded who knows

7065
04:29:19,030 --> 04:29:17,120
okay no comment from you alex then i

7066
04:29:21,429 --> 04:29:19,040
think we're gonna wind down this thing

7067
04:29:23,510 --> 04:29:21,439
um we've been on a journey now the

7068
04:29:25,349 --> 04:29:23,520
skeptical journey and this last segment

7069
04:29:29,510 --> 04:29:25,359
with miguel was perfect because it

7070
04:29:31,830 --> 04:29:29,520
illustrates where skeptical is today

7071
04:29:32,790 --> 04:29:31,840
we're on overtime about just my last

7072
04:29:34,950 --> 04:29:32,800
question

7073
04:29:36,950 --> 04:29:34,960
and then let's say good night

7074
04:29:38,790 --> 04:29:36,960
where do you think today alex that

7075
04:29:40,630 --> 04:29:38,800
skeptical is going

7076
04:29:44,550 --> 04:29:40,640
i think i i do think that this

7077
04:29:45,349 --> 04:29:44,560
conversation and my grilling of miguel

7078
04:29:46,389 --> 04:29:45,359
and

7079
04:29:48,550 --> 04:29:46,399
also

7080
04:29:51,590 --> 04:29:48,560
it wasn't just the grilling of mcgill it

7081
04:29:52,790 --> 04:29:51,600
was the space that miguel held during

7082
04:29:55,830 --> 04:29:52,800
that

7083
04:29:57,750 --> 04:29:55,840
conversation

7084
04:30:01,110 --> 04:29:57,760
that needs to happen

7085
04:30:04,309 --> 04:30:01,120
where someone can someone can hear and

7086
04:30:06,790 --> 04:30:04,319
respond and move towards truth because

7087
04:30:08,870 --> 04:30:06,800
it's always about truth right grilling

7088
04:30:09,980 --> 04:30:08,880
god you should marry somebody hispanic

7089
04:30:13,110 --> 04:30:09,990
you don't know grilling

7090
04:30:15,670 --> 04:30:13,120
[Laughter]

7091
04:30:17,430 --> 04:30:15,680
yeah he's spoiled

7092
04:30:19,990 --> 04:30:17,440
he married a therapist god damn it

7093
04:30:21,269 --> 04:30:20,000
[Laughter]

7094
04:30:23,830 --> 04:30:21,279
anyway

7095
04:30:26,070 --> 04:30:23,840
guys it's been fun thank you for for

7096
04:30:28,070 --> 04:30:26,080
doing this it was super fun and i hope

7097
04:30:30,630 --> 04:30:28,080
it was entertaining for people and

7098
04:30:33,269 --> 04:30:30,640
enlightening and notwithstanding

7099
04:30:36,389 --> 04:30:33,279
after this you should definitely have a

7100
04:30:38,710 --> 04:30:36,399
pretty clear case of what skeptical is i

7101
04:30:40,870 --> 04:30:38,720
had fun it was a blast al you're the

7102
04:30:43,349 --> 04:30:40,880
best thank you so much for doing this

7103
04:30:44,870 --> 04:30:43,359
okay it's officially over guys i gotta

7104
04:30:46,389 --> 04:30:44,880
run to the bathroom and then i got an

7105
04:30:48,070 --> 04:30:46,399
appointment i'm already [\h__\h] upset

7106
04:30:50,070 --> 04:30:48,080
all right but

7107
04:30:52,070 --> 04:30:50,080
thanks again and miguel thank you so

7108
04:30:54,630 --> 04:30:52,080
much for jumping in here oh anytime guys

7109
04:30:57,750 --> 04:30:54,640
it was a lot of fun we'll talk soon okay

7110
04:31:00,389 --> 04:30:57,760
later guys see you guys bye

7111
04:31:03,670 --> 04:31:00,399
many thanks to all the good people who

7112
04:31:05,990 --> 04:31:03,680
contributed to the show today

7113
04:31:08,790 --> 04:31:06,000
we'll close this session

7114
04:31:11,429 --> 04:31:08,800
with alex letting you in

7115
04:31:13,910 --> 04:31:11,439
on the five essential things you need to

7116
04:31:16,149 --> 04:31:13,920
know about skeptical which is an

7117
04:31:18,790 --> 04:31:16,159
interesting summary that crystallizes

7118
04:31:21,990 --> 04:31:18,800
the current version of the show

7119
04:31:26,149 --> 04:31:22,000
but first a quick fact check i made the

7120
04:31:29,030 --> 04:31:26,159
statement in part one that yogananda was

7121
04:31:32,149 --> 04:31:29,040
also a mason however

7122
04:31:36,070 --> 04:31:32,159
i got my swarmies mixed up

7123
04:31:39,269 --> 04:31:36,080
i was actually referring to vivekananda

7124
04:31:41,510 --> 04:31:39,279
so now that's clarified i'll leave the

7125
04:31:44,630 --> 04:31:41,520
last word to alex

7126
04:31:45,910 --> 04:31:44,640
the five things you need to know about

7127
04:31:47,750 --> 04:31:45,920
skeptico

7128
04:31:50,710 --> 04:31:47,760
the first thing you should know about

7129
04:31:53,590 --> 04:31:50,720
skeptico is that i approach skeptico as

7130
04:31:55,750 --> 04:31:53,600
my personal journey towards answering

7131
04:31:58,309 --> 04:31:55,760
the biggest questions about life who are

7132
04:32:01,189 --> 04:31:58,319
we why are we here and most importantly

7133
04:32:03,269 --> 04:32:01,199
how should i live my life based on those

7134
04:32:06,229 --> 04:32:03,279
questions mainly so that i can keep

7135
04:32:09,030 --> 04:32:06,239
talking to the people i want to talk to

7136
04:32:11,030 --> 04:32:09,040
which of course includes you and that's

7137
04:32:13,189 --> 04:32:11,040
also why you'll never see any

7138
04:32:15,590 --> 04:32:13,199
advertisements on skeptico you'll never

7139
04:32:17,990 --> 04:32:15,600
hear me ask for any donations or

7140
04:32:20,790 --> 04:32:18,000
anything like that the show is really

7141
04:32:23,189 --> 04:32:20,800
about my personal journey i'm not trying

7142
04:32:26,070 --> 04:32:23,199
to get anywhere with it i'm not trying

7143
04:32:28,070 --> 04:32:26,080
to advance any cause run for office

7144
04:32:31,110 --> 04:32:28,080
create a name for myself or anything

7145
04:32:33,670 --> 04:32:31,120
else i just want to do my best to answer

7146
04:32:36,229 --> 04:32:33,680
these questions and along the way share

7147
04:32:38,710 --> 04:32:36,239
my journey with everyone else

7148
04:32:41,510 --> 04:32:38,720
the second thing you should know about

7149
04:32:44,469 --> 04:32:41,520
skeptico is that the show is about

7150
04:32:46,870 --> 04:32:44,479
following the data wherever it leads or

7151
04:32:49,269 --> 04:32:46,880
at least it started out that way but let

7152
04:32:51,030 --> 04:32:49,279
me digress into that for a minute the

7153
04:32:53,269 --> 04:32:51,040
point i want to make here is that when i

7154
04:32:55,429 --> 04:32:53,279
started out i had this idea that if i

7155
04:32:57,429 --> 04:32:55,439
wanted to find out about this stuff even

7156
04:33:00,389 --> 04:32:57,439
this really big stuff like questions

7157
04:33:02,550 --> 04:33:00,399
about who am i then i could just go out

7158
04:33:05,029 --> 04:33:02,560
and find the data i could go talk to the

7159
04:33:07,349 --> 04:33:05,039
very best experts i could go then talk

7160
04:33:09,670 --> 04:33:07,359
to critics of those experts and then

7161
04:33:12,310 --> 04:33:09,680
critics of those critics i could follow

7162
04:33:14,789 --> 04:33:12,320
the data wherever it led and i would get

7163
04:33:16,949 --> 04:33:14,799
to some sort of answer and to a certain

7164
04:33:19,109 --> 04:33:16,959
extent that works but i have to tell you

7165
04:33:21,349 --> 04:33:19,119
that in the process of doing that

7166
04:33:23,590 --> 04:33:21,359
following the data wherever it leads i

7167
04:33:26,070 --> 04:33:23,600
came to the realization that it's not

7168
04:33:27,269 --> 04:33:26,080
just about the data it's about all the

7169
04:33:29,029 --> 04:33:27,279
other stuff

7170
04:33:31,910 --> 04:33:29,039
and this has turned out to be a really

7171
04:33:34,709 --> 04:33:31,920
important part of my little skeptico

7172
04:33:36,789 --> 04:33:34,719
journey here because it opened me up to

7173
04:33:39,349 --> 04:33:36,799
two things one that people can have

7174
04:33:41,910 --> 04:33:39,359
worldview differences that dramatically

7175
04:33:43,109 --> 04:33:41,920
alter their ability to objectively look

7176
04:33:45,750 --> 04:33:43,119
at data

7177
04:33:47,830 --> 04:33:45,760
and number two it pushed me beyond that

7178
04:33:51,109 --> 04:33:47,840
to then ask the question of whether or

7179
04:33:53,109 --> 04:33:51,119
not that process of worldview formation

7180
04:33:54,629 --> 04:33:53,119
is always under our control or whether

7181
04:33:56,470 --> 04:33:54,639
there are other

7182
04:33:59,429 --> 04:33:56,480
influencers that are trying to

7183
04:34:01,429 --> 04:33:59,439
manipulate our worldview it's a topic

7184
04:34:04,709 --> 04:34:01,439
that i've returned to several times

7185
04:34:06,709 --> 04:34:04,719
because it does seem to keep popping up

7186
04:34:09,029 --> 04:34:06,719
so this idea that it's not just about

7187
04:34:11,910 --> 04:34:09,039
the data it's about all the other stuff

7188
04:34:12,949 --> 04:34:11,920
has been a reoccurring theme on skeptico

7189
04:34:16,230 --> 04:34:12,959
so i don't know what do you want to call

7190
04:34:17,750 --> 04:34:16,240
that misrepresentation a misremembering

7191
04:34:19,830 --> 04:34:17,760
lie i don't know what kind of words you

7192
04:34:21,990 --> 04:34:19,840
want to throw at it but it's stunning

7193
04:34:24,629 --> 04:34:22,000
but it would be more stunning if it

7194
04:34:27,029 --> 04:34:24,639
hasn't happened over and over and over

7195
04:34:29,349 --> 04:34:27,039
again on this show and we have countless

7196
04:34:31,910 --> 04:34:29,359
examples and all you have to do is go

7197
04:34:35,109 --> 04:34:31,920
through the archives and listen to

7198
04:34:37,750 --> 04:34:35,119
richard wiseman and listen to ray hyman

7199
04:34:40,150 --> 04:34:37,760
and listen even to steven novella listen

7200
04:34:41,910 --> 04:34:40,160
to james randy all i mean it's a

7201
04:34:44,551 --> 04:34:41,920
consistent pattern we can't even call

7202
04:34:46,869 --> 04:34:44,561
ben out for being especially over the

7203
04:34:50,070 --> 04:34:46,879
top in terms of misreporting this stuff

7204
04:34:52,789 --> 04:34:50,080
it has to do with the bias the world

7205
04:34:56,551 --> 04:34:52,799
view it clouds their vision and they're

7206
04:34:59,109 --> 04:34:56,561
just like the fanatical conservative

7207
04:35:01,990 --> 04:34:59,119
religious folks that they so despise

7208
04:35:04,949 --> 04:35:02,000
that can't get past the obvious problems

7209
04:35:07,269 --> 04:35:04,959
in their logic it's the same situation

7210
04:35:09,910 --> 04:35:07,279
repeated over and over again i started

7211
04:35:11,830 --> 04:35:09,920
out with the idea of following the data

7212
04:35:14,310 --> 04:35:11,840
wherever it leads and was smacked in the

7213
04:35:16,709 --> 04:35:14,320
face by the realization that it's not

7214
04:35:18,629 --> 04:35:16,719
about the data it's about all this other

7215
04:35:20,709 --> 04:35:18,639
stuff that causes people to have

7216
04:35:23,109 --> 04:35:20,719
entrenched world views entrenched belief

7217
04:35:25,510 --> 04:35:23,119
systems and then fight and resist any

7218
04:35:27,830 --> 04:35:25,520
change or any challenge to those

7219
04:35:29,910 --> 04:35:27,840
so i guess that rolls right into point

7220
04:35:32,869 --> 04:35:29,920
three of what you should know about

7221
04:35:36,949 --> 04:35:32,879
skeptico and that is that what i'm

7222
04:35:39,429 --> 04:35:36,959
really about is getting past these stuck

7223
04:35:41,670 --> 04:35:39,439
on stupid debates as i call them and

7224
04:35:44,949 --> 04:35:41,680
that i've found turns out to be pretty

7225
04:35:48,230 --> 04:35:44,959
hard to do because we are surrounded by

7226
04:35:50,629 --> 04:35:48,240
an emesh in a lot of stuck on stupid

7227
04:35:52,869 --> 04:35:50,639
debates one example of this that we've

7228
04:35:55,349 --> 04:35:52,879
spent a good deal of time talking about

7229
04:35:57,269 --> 04:35:55,359
on this show because in various forms it

7230
04:35:58,150 --> 04:35:57,279
seemed to keep popping up again and

7231
04:36:01,109 --> 04:35:58,160
again

7232
04:36:03,590 --> 04:36:01,119
is the do christians or substitute any

7233
04:36:07,349 --> 04:36:03,600
religion you like in there know the true

7234
04:36:09,750 --> 04:36:07,359
path to god or our atheist right so

7235
04:36:12,629 --> 04:36:09,760
there's a good stuck on stupid debate

7236
04:36:15,590 --> 04:36:12,639
for you and i say that because as far as

7237
04:36:19,109 --> 04:36:15,600
i can tell both sides have some pretty

7238
04:36:21,670 --> 04:36:19,119
darn stupid arguments these did noah use

7239
04:36:24,949 --> 04:36:21,680
nails in the ark debate are the kind of

7240
04:36:27,750 --> 04:36:24,959
debates i don't want to have i mean i

7241
04:36:29,670 --> 04:36:27,760
guess there are some real archaeological

7242
04:36:31,269 --> 04:36:29,680
questions there and i want to be open to

7243
04:36:32,551 --> 04:36:31,279
hearing some of that stuff but it's

7244
04:36:34,629 --> 04:36:32,561
pretty much in the shallow end of the

7245
04:36:37,510 --> 04:36:34,639
pull when it comes to these who am i

7246
04:36:40,390 --> 04:36:37,520
questions because to really understand

7247
04:36:43,189 --> 04:36:40,400
why i think this is a stuck on stupid

7248
04:36:45,269 --> 04:36:43,199
debate we have to look at the other side

7249
04:36:48,070 --> 04:36:45,279
of the table who's sitting across from

7250
04:36:51,109 --> 04:36:48,080
us and that is the atheist who's built

7251
04:36:53,590 --> 04:36:51,119
his house on a very sandy foundation and

7252
04:36:55,750 --> 04:36:53,600
that is the belief that consciousness

7253
04:36:57,029 --> 04:36:55,760
that is the sum total of your human

7254
04:36:59,990 --> 04:36:57,039
experience

7255
04:37:02,709 --> 04:37:00,000
consciousness is an illusion created by

7256
04:37:05,269 --> 04:37:02,719
a biological robot you of course being

7257
04:37:07,670 --> 04:37:05,279
that biological robot now this statement

7258
04:37:09,429 --> 04:37:07,680
which i've often repeated on skeptico

7259
04:37:12,470 --> 04:37:09,439
but let me break it down for you because

7260
04:37:15,510 --> 04:37:12,480
it's really a mashup of two of the most

7261
04:37:18,070 --> 04:37:15,520
popular atheist thinkers of our time

7262
04:37:20,709 --> 04:37:18,080
that is philosopher dr daniel dennett

7263
04:37:23,910 --> 04:37:20,719
who famously said consciousness is an

7264
04:37:26,709 --> 04:37:23,920
illusion and dr richard dawkins who of

7265
04:37:28,949 --> 04:37:26,719
course said that humans are biological

7266
04:37:31,510 --> 04:37:28,959
robots now we've explored at great

7267
04:37:34,150 --> 04:37:31,520
length on skeptico how atheists often

7268
04:37:37,189 --> 04:37:34,160
like to run from these philosophical

7269
04:37:39,910 --> 04:37:37,199
underpinnings that prop up atheism just

7270
04:37:42,310 --> 04:37:39,920
like christians like to run from the

7271
04:37:45,269 --> 04:37:42,320
literal noah's ark thing but i would

7272
04:37:47,349 --> 04:37:45,279
suggest to you this ambivalence this not

7273
04:37:49,590 --> 04:37:47,359
knowing whether i should embrace the

7274
04:37:51,670 --> 04:37:49,600
core beliefs of my group in this case

7275
04:37:54,390 --> 04:37:51,680
embrace consciousness as an illusion

7276
04:37:57,189 --> 04:37:54,400
created by biological robots or whether

7277
04:38:00,070 --> 04:37:57,199
i should run from it is really at the

7278
04:38:02,230 --> 04:38:00,080
core of these stuck on stupid debates

7279
04:38:04,310 --> 04:38:02,240
because i think it demonstrates the

7280
04:38:06,310 --> 04:38:04,320
cognitive dissonance that we go through

7281
04:38:08,629 --> 04:38:06,320
when we're drawn into these kind of

7282
04:38:11,189 --> 04:38:08,639
debates that crop up all the time on

7283
04:38:13,590 --> 04:38:11,199
skeptico when it comes to near-death

7284
04:38:16,551 --> 04:38:13,600
experience science suggesting that

7285
04:38:20,070 --> 04:38:16,561
there's some deep brain activity that's

7286
04:38:22,029 --> 04:38:20,080
undetectable by eeg that could explain

7287
04:38:24,709 --> 04:38:22,039
the complex deep

7288
04:38:26,551 --> 04:38:24,719
hyperlucid experiences that people are

7289
04:38:28,949 --> 04:38:26,561
having where they're seeing things

7290
04:38:31,670 --> 04:38:28,959
outside of their body in other rooms

7291
04:38:34,470 --> 04:38:31,680
while their eyes are closed and covered

7292
04:38:37,029 --> 04:38:34,480
now to suggest that is to say that

7293
04:38:40,070 --> 04:38:37,039
everything we know about how the brain

7294
04:38:42,789 --> 04:38:40,080
works is wrong using some did noah's ark

7295
04:38:44,949 --> 04:38:42,799
have nails logic because hey we don't

7296
04:38:47,429 --> 04:38:44,959
have a model for the brain that explains

7297
04:38:49,349 --> 04:38:47,439
how you can see with your eyes closed or

7298
04:38:51,109 --> 04:38:49,359
about how you can hear conversations in

7299
04:38:52,949 --> 04:38:51,119
the hallway three floors down while

7300
04:38:54,869 --> 04:38:52,959
you're on a gurney being resuscitated

7301
04:38:57,029 --> 04:38:54,879
heck we don't even have a model for how

7302
04:39:00,390 --> 04:38:57,039
you can be having these experiences and

7303
04:39:02,390 --> 04:39:00,400
not have an eeg going off like crazy so

7304
04:39:04,949 --> 04:39:02,400
to suggest that oh don't worry boys

7305
04:39:07,429 --> 04:39:04,959
we'll figure all this out eventually and

7306
04:39:09,670 --> 04:39:07,439
not sound some sort of alarm based on

7307
04:39:12,310 --> 04:39:09,680
the data that does except that

7308
04:39:14,070 --> 04:39:12,320
near-death experiences are happening and

7309
04:39:17,109 --> 04:39:14,080
that they are happening during a time

7310
04:39:19,269 --> 04:39:17,119
when the eeg is flat so not to announce

7311
04:39:21,830 --> 04:39:19,279
that as some kind of enormous mystery

7312
04:39:24,310 --> 04:39:21,840
that requires our immediate and serious

7313
04:39:26,789 --> 04:39:24,320
attention and instead to shift the focus

7314
04:39:29,670 --> 04:39:26,799
on these deep brain probes

7315
04:39:31,109 --> 04:39:29,680
is a did noah's ark have nails moment

7316
04:39:32,869 --> 04:39:31,119
it's shifting the focus away from a

7317
04:39:34,709 --> 04:39:32,879
topic that you don't feel really

7318
04:39:36,470 --> 04:39:34,719
comfortable addressing so that you can

7319
04:39:38,470 --> 04:39:36,480
kind of grind on something that's really

7320
04:39:40,230 --> 04:39:38,480
pretty meaningless and that leads me

7321
04:39:43,030 --> 04:39:40,240
into point four of things you should

7322
04:39:46,550 --> 04:39:43,040
know about skeptico and that is that if

7323
04:39:49,430 --> 04:39:46,560
skeptico is about moving past these

7324
04:39:52,150 --> 04:39:49,440
stuck on stupid debates these did noah's

7325
04:39:54,470 --> 04:39:52,160
ark have nails kind of debates then what

7326
04:39:55,910 --> 04:39:54,480
kind of dialogues am i looking to have

7327
04:39:59,030 --> 04:39:55,920
well one of the things that really

7328
04:40:00,948 --> 04:39:59,040
drives me motivates me excites me is all

7329
04:40:03,750 --> 04:40:00,958
the interesting questions that lie

7330
04:40:05,510 --> 04:40:03,760
beyond these debates and there are so

7331
04:40:08,470 --> 04:40:05,520
many of them and i want to get to them

7332
04:40:11,910 --> 04:40:08,480
i'm less interested in whether or not

7333
04:40:14,550 --> 04:40:11,920
sam parnea's new aware study will win

7334
04:40:16,948 --> 04:40:14,560
over some of the atheist skeptics who

7335
04:40:18,948 --> 04:40:16,958
are still on the fence about the reality

7336
04:40:21,670 --> 04:40:18,958
of near-death experience what i'm

7337
04:40:24,390 --> 04:40:21,680
interested in is comparing near-death

7338
04:40:26,550 --> 04:40:24,400
experiences with other experiences with

7339
04:40:29,830 --> 04:40:26,560
extended human consciousness whether

7340
04:40:32,868 --> 04:40:29,840
they be a dmt-induced hallucination or a

7341
04:40:35,750 --> 04:40:32,878
kundalini experience or a ufo encounter

7342
04:40:38,390 --> 04:40:35,760
that's the kind of question that lies

7343
04:40:41,510 --> 04:40:38,400
beyond the whole consciousness is an

7344
04:40:44,070 --> 04:40:41,520
illusion of a biological robot stupid

7345
04:40:45,510 --> 04:40:44,080
stuff now to get to that next level kind

7346
04:40:48,070 --> 04:40:45,520
of discussion i'm going to have to

7347
04:40:50,470 --> 04:40:48,080
circle back from time to time to revisit

7348
04:40:52,150 --> 04:40:50,480
my assumptions and i have to be aware

7349
04:40:53,670 --> 04:40:52,160
and honest about the fact that

7350
04:40:55,910 --> 04:40:53,680
consciousness is an illusion of a

7351
04:40:58,948 --> 04:40:55,920
biological robot thing i'm talking about

7352
04:41:01,430 --> 04:40:58,958
happens to be the dominant scientific

7353
04:41:04,310 --> 04:41:01,440
paradigm so we can't pretend it doesn't

7354
04:41:06,948 --> 04:41:04,320
cast a huge shadow on any serious

7355
04:41:08,868 --> 04:41:06,958
scientific conversation we might have i

7356
04:41:11,030 --> 04:41:08,878
don't want to pretend that's not true

7357
04:41:12,788 --> 04:41:11,040
and similarly i want to be real about

7358
04:41:14,708 --> 04:41:12,798
our culture's judeo-christian roots and

7359
04:41:16,628 --> 04:41:14,718
now that can cast a shadow on all

7360
04:41:19,110 --> 04:41:16,638
conversations we might have about the

7361
04:41:21,510 --> 04:41:19,120
spiritual implications we might discover

7362
04:41:23,270 --> 04:41:21,520
when we go beyond this extended human

7363
04:41:25,510 --> 04:41:23,280
consciousness so i'm going to need to

7364
04:41:27,190 --> 04:41:25,520
circle back and re-examine some of our

7365
04:41:29,350 --> 04:41:27,200
spiritual traditions and religious

7366
04:41:32,070 --> 04:41:29,360
traditions from time to time as well and

7367
04:41:34,230 --> 04:41:32,080
i'm sure i'll do that in future shows

7368
04:41:37,190 --> 04:41:34,240
and then finally on this point i think i

7369
04:41:40,230 --> 04:41:37,200
also have to be realistic and accept

7370
04:41:42,470 --> 04:41:40,240
that this path that i'm on is not going

7371
04:41:44,708 --> 04:41:42,480
to be wildly popular

7372
04:41:47,430 --> 04:41:44,718
and most folks have a worldview belief

7373
04:41:50,470 --> 04:41:47,440
system that's dominated either by this

7374
04:41:53,750 --> 04:41:50,480
scientific materialistic neo-darwinism

7375
04:41:56,230 --> 04:41:53,760
atheism kind of thinking or this true

7376
04:41:58,390 --> 04:41:56,240
believer religious status quo kind of

7377
04:42:01,270 --> 04:41:58,400
track and since i've come to believe and

7378
04:42:04,150 --> 04:42:01,280
understand that both are based on some

7379
04:42:06,708 --> 04:42:04,160
pretty crippling assumptions i gotta

7380
04:42:08,868 --> 04:42:06,718
accept that at best

7381
04:42:11,590 --> 04:42:08,878
people are gonna probably be confused

7382
04:42:14,150 --> 04:42:11,600
about where i stand or and this seems to

7383
04:42:17,430 --> 04:42:14,160
happen a lot as you know darn right

7384
04:42:20,230 --> 04:42:17,440
hostile to me trampling all over their

7385
04:42:22,628 --> 04:42:20,240
sacred cherished beliefs about science

7386
04:42:24,470 --> 04:42:22,638
and or spirituality

7387
04:42:27,110 --> 04:42:24,480
and that brings me to the fifth and

7388
04:42:29,750 --> 04:42:27,120
final point that you should know about

7389
04:42:32,550 --> 04:42:29,760
the skeptico show and that is that the

7390
04:42:35,510 --> 04:42:32,560
reason i do skeptical is so that i can

7391
04:42:38,390 --> 04:42:35,520
connect with you so that i can create

7392
04:42:40,550 --> 04:42:38,400
this community with other people who

7393
04:42:41,990 --> 04:42:40,560
share my beliefs and interests and

7394
04:42:44,708 --> 04:42:42,000
desire to

7395
04:42:47,110 --> 04:42:44,718
kind of figure out these problems it's

7396
04:42:49,190 --> 04:42:47,120
going to take a village for me to figure

7397
04:42:51,190 --> 04:42:49,200
out who i really am

7398
04:42:53,990 --> 04:42:51,200
and that's why at various times in the

7399
04:42:55,910 --> 04:42:54,000
skeptical show i've tried to engage with

7400
04:42:58,230 --> 04:42:55,920
other people to either come on and guest

7401
04:42:59,830 --> 04:42:58,240
host with me or participate in other

7402
04:43:01,670 --> 04:42:59,840
ways in the show or get involved with

7403
04:43:04,310 --> 04:43:01,680
various projects i like that i think

7404
04:43:07,030 --> 04:43:04,320
that community building is a part of not

7405
04:43:09,350 --> 04:43:07,040
just the skeptical show but part of my

7406
04:43:10,230 --> 04:43:09,360
path and what i want to do on this

7407
04:43:13,430 --> 04:43:10,240
journey

7408
04:43:16,150 --> 04:43:13,440
that's it hope you enjoyed this stroll

7409
04:43:19,010 --> 04:43:16,160
down memory lane thanks for staying with

7410
04:43:32,600 --> 04:43:19,020
us take care and bye for now